quote:Originally posted by Shik: Maybe it's got no actual techincal reason & it's just there to look intimidating. These ARE Klingons, after all.
That could be the case, if maybe the BOP's raised up their wings when attacking(kinda like a real life bird of prey). But they can fire with wings both up and down, so whose to say which position is more intimidating?
Registered: Feb 2005
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I think the "weak spot" on the KBOP is likely from the landing gear- assorted hatches and lighter armor/hull there.
I also thin the "propulsion stack" idea is correct- the warp nacelles are probably in the "shoulders" and the glowy part at the rear is it's (and the impulse engine's) vent.
I always figured the raised "feathers" were part of the cloaking generator (I cant fathom the 'ol cloak-is-a-box idea). Possibly they help to manage heat signature as well. I dont think we ever see the KBOP fire with winga up (only the silly "K'Vort" in Yesterday's Enterprise).
We saw a "wings-down" decloak attack during Martok's attack of the Dominion base (cant recall the episode, but it featured several KBOP's and a K'Tinga).
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Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
No, we also so plenty of wings-up action in "Redemption," too.
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Registered: Nov 2000
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For the record, I just watched "Once More Unto The Breach" (DS9 DVD slimpacks for �18 = YOINK!) and Jason is right, during the initial strafing run at the Cardassian base the two BoPs decloak in orbit with wings down and they stay down until the Malpara is destroyed trying to escape. Same goes for the second attack, Martok's 3 BoPs all decloak with wings down (inside an atmosphere this time, I might add) though we don't see them cloak on the way out, the wings were most likely still down.
Finally near the end, right after Kor knocks out Worf, the [url= http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/IKS_Ning%27tao]Ning'tao[/url] decloaks with wings already slightly dipped (like most post WotW BoPs) drops out of warp, comes about, drops wings into attack position and warps away back to meet the Jem'Hadar (uncloaked.)
From this we can determine that a BoP can go to warp with wings up or down, though given that the wings were up to begin with AND they were running away at the time it's fair to say that UP = FASTER. We can also say that as in ST:III, the wings were very intentionally dropped before opening fire, which reinforces that wings down means optimal, if not maximum weapons effectiveness.
The key to all of this is that the wings were only seen dipped when the [url= http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/IKS_Ch%27tang]Ch'Tang[/url] was docked at DS9, when the squadron is information right before they leave DS9 and when the Ning'tao decloaks and drops out of warp after the initial battle. To borrow Starfleet terminology, I'd call the wings dipped position "Yellow Alert", as in we're in/about to be in trouble, but nobody is shooting yet while the wings down position is clearly "Red Alert". I doubt Klingons have a "Condition Green", so lets just stick that label on the landing position.
To put it all in simpler terms (if that's possible): Wings up = MORE SPEED, Wings down = MORE TARGETING ACCURACY. Now a ship can warp and fire disruptors in either position, but both have their particular advantages and dis-advantages.
At least that's what we can surmise from the consistent evidence. Best to ignore TNG for the most part, they really weren't paying attention.
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Registered: Mar 1999
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Yeah, that and it's sometimes hard to tell when they're supposed to be K'Vorts or normal BoPs. If they ever remaster TNG, one would hope they replace the K'vorts with something more appropriate.
posted
I was always fond of the idea that the "cooling fins" act as some kind of "variable capacitor" that is used to tune the warp field, even though it seems that the actual generator is inside the main hull, not the nacelles. If it has something to do with the warp drive, then the problem is essentially the same as with Voyager and its warp drive which is always stuck in the same position at warp and lowered at impulse for no apparent reason. While it is not really satisfying to have the same dilemma with two ships, it helps rationalize that we don't always see wing positions that immediately make sense.
Registered: Mar 1999
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I'm about 3/4 through my version of this ship. The following are my postulates and assumptions.
1. Multiple Wing Configuration:
Wings Up: Obviously for landing. Also allows engineers access to warp coils (starboard coil is under hull plates McCoy painted ship name on). Also, the Klingons can stage planet surface raids, with troops landed near their targets.
Wings Horizontal: This has to do with center of gravity (or trim if you are a pilot). When the wings are raised or lowered, the CoG passes vertically though the ship's decks up and down. It follows that optimum cruising performance (warp or impulse speed) is achieved with the CoG on the same 'level' as the warp coils.
Wings Down: This has to do with moment arm. Put simply, given two disks of the same mass, one with large diameter and one with small diameter, the smaller diameter disk will spin faster given the same rotational energy input. It follows that in a dogfight, the BoP would utilize this configuration. Also, the cannon are located closer together, and therefore the blast impacts will be located closer. One can still go to warp, but energy will have to be applied to offset the off-center trim. And a BoP doesn't have a lot of energy to spare.
2. Size. I postulate that there is only one size of BoP - the size we saw in ST4 (smaller than Defiant). I further assume that all BoPs have this ability - that's why they are still in service.
Regarding differences in scale as seen in different images - disregard. Otherwise you have the BoP from ST3 enormous compared to the Merchantman - but small when seen in ST4.
posted
Personal preferences aside, David, we've too much onscreen evidence of Birds-of-Prey larger than it first appeared throughout TNG and DS9. There have to be at least three sizes, regardless of exactly how big the TSFS/TVH BoP was.
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Registered: Feb 2001
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Not sure if it's relevant or not, but I happened to catch a bit of ST:IV on tv the other day and there is a line, right before the bit with the whaling ship. Something to the effect of "wings in cruise position, Mr Sulu." So it is a set position and it is optional. In this case the obvious intention was to travel as fast as possible at sublight within an atmosphere. So that would support the position/speed association.
As for the different sizes, since everything from DS9's 4 season is more or less consistent in terms of scale - and, incidentally wing behaviour - (thanks to RDM, methinks) I think it's simpler to label the TNG appearances of the big version as the K'Vort cruiser and everything else is the B'rel. Which I gather is the generally accepted wisdom. Everything else I'd just chalk up to SFX gaffs. Best not to over analyse.
posted
So is that 2 sizes and model re-use foul-ups, or 3? Does anyone have a screenshot of the BoP behind/above the Merchantman? Knowing the size of that BoP (from shots on Vulcan, under the Huey, and in San Francisco Bay, we should be able to calculate the size of the Merchantman. If it's smaller than a shuttlepod - then no shots can be trusted for 'canon' scale purposes.
Besides, what possible use would a larger version of the BoP be? Why would it look exactly ther same? Occam's Razor.
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