posted
Now, I hope I am not asking a redundant question, but why where Federation sheilds so ineffective during the dominion war? I know they were worthless against a poloron beam and such, but cardassian phasers? After watching several ds9 eps with fleet battle scenes, i was surpised to see ships that just entered the fray blown apart by cardie phasers (like in Sacrifice of Angels). Even better was the galaxy class in Tears of the Profits that had two large hul breaches seemingly within seconds of the defence platforms comming online. Any thoughts?
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Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
but cardassian phasers??? We've seen the enterprise and deep space nine handle them with no problem. I wonder if the captains decided to nix the sheilds( as they would do no good against polaron beams and energy dampening dohickies) and transfer power to weapons and structural integrity. upon reading some other threads today; I am sorry to hear about Jay.
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
good point. But then that leads me to ask why they did not look into say, hull plating a la NX01 and i know that ds9 was produced before enterprise, but theoretically, it would make sense to have some kind of secondary barrier against all thats bad in the universe.
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
They did - the Defiant was fitted with ablative armour which acted as a second line of defense once the shields were down. It wasn't just limited to the Defiant either - presumably the Sao Paolo had the same armour plating. The USS Lakota (an older Excelsior class design) also had it fitted, so it wasn't something limited to newer ship designs.
It's worth bearing in mind that shield strengths were never shown to be consistent - when the Defiant played possum in "Favor the bold" her shield "bubble" appeared when the Jem'Hadar fired on her. Yet, as you say, in fleet battle scenes there didn't seem to be any evidence of shields at all on many of the ships.
Of course the real world answer is that ships exploding with all sorts of damage looks a lot cooler than ships flying around gradually battering down one another's shields, but as for the "in universe" explanation? Anyone's guess. Could it be that the shields are dropped around certain non-essential areas to boost the shielding around critical areas/systems? After all who cares if the holodecks on deck 10 take a hit, if it means keeping the shields up around the engineering hull a few moments longer?
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Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
true. But those were recent builds/refits( like the Lakota). You'd think that starfleet would make that standard- maybe not ablative armor, but at least polarized plating- just in case the shields failed. It makes me think that starfleet felt their tech was invincible. Such large egos. I guess capt. styles wasn't such a rare breed afterall.
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posted
Is there anything to suggest the Lakota was a recent build/refit? She might have been around for a while for all we know. Memory Alpha lists her registry number as NCC 42768 - anyone know where that might roughly put her construction date?
Starfleet might well have made the ablative armour standard, though - in the later years of 24th century Trek the ships do seem to take more of a swing towards being combat ready.
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Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Well, the Ambassador was ncc 10xxx's and 20xxx's and the first galaxy in the very early 70xxx's. That wouls be about the 2330's and 2350's respectively ( according to memory alpha) so some time between there would sound about right. But i swear that sometime in "Paridise Lost" there was mention of Lakota being recently refit. I amassuming that the armor was installed during that time
a) because it is a relitivly new technology and b) other excelsiors with similar 4xxxx registries ( the Valley Forge comes to mind) got their aft torpedo launchers handed to them on a plate
I'm not saying that armor would not be installed in future builds or refits, but why there would be no second line defence on older ships. I guess the S.I.F. could take a little extra punishment, but it just seems stupid not to have some sort of back up protection.
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posted
I thought the official Flare conclusion was that the shield bubbles represented the wholly ineffectual to Dominion weapons technology, which was swapped for the only slightly less ineffectual but better than nothing skin-hugging shields which conveniently have no associated special effect technology?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
which would explain the post war Enterprise E's shield configuration. As for the effect....
What i don't understand is ( other than a convienient plot device) why the NX-01, a low tech ship by 24th century standards can take a butt-load of punishment, namely the xindi attack @ azati prime, suffer multiple serious looking hull breaches and continue to function with seemingly little repair. In TNG times however, it seems that a single hull breach is enough to warrant a full scale evacuation, and renders the ship in need of immediate repair.
I appologize if this does not make sense, but it is 11:30, and almost time for my daily rest cycle.
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
quote:Originally posted by FawnDoo: Is there anything to suggest the Lakota was a recent build/refit? She might have been around for a while for all we know. Memory Alpha lists her registry number as NCC 42768 - anyone know where that might roughly put her construction date?
Based on the timeline-per-construction chart I made for my project, I have Lakota built in 2332 or 2333.
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Registered: Jun 2000
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I don't think it's a matter of the NX-01 being made of sterner stuff, just that it's a matter of necessity. Why doesn't a TNG era ship soldier on with hull breaches and damage to systems? Simple - it doesn't have to, because by that time there is an extensive network of starbases to support the fleet. You get badly damaged, you head off to the nearest base and get yourself patched up. The NX-01 had no choice in the matter, especially when it was in the Delphic Expanse and far from any remotely friendly races. It was a matter of continue on with massive damage, or fail in the mission to save Earth, not that it necessarily tougher than later Starfleet ships.
Ships in the TNG era have suffered hull breaches and kept going - in Best of Both Worlds the Enterprise suffers a breach to deck 36 and keeps going - they are even able to control engineering functions from the bridge and keep going while (I hope, anyway!) repairs are carried out. Voyager has hull breach after hull breach in its time and always manages to make repairs. Granted, that's more a function of the big magic reset button (tm) but in the show, it's got to be as a result of repairs done on the fly.
quote:Originally posted by Shik: Based on the timeline-per-construction chart I made for my project, I have Lakota built in 2332 or 2333.
So she is certainly not a new ship by the time of DS9 - roughly about 40 years old. I know in that episode that the Defiant crew seemed surprised that the Lakota had received upgraded defense systems but there is no reason to think that this wasn't a fleetwide upgrade by this point, or at least an upgrade given to all ships under Leyton's influence.
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Registered: Nov 2004
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Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
Member # 1203
posted
Sean.... Sean.... Sean...
Star Fleet didn't have Overtechnology at the time.
or Idol Singers.
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: I thought the official Flare conclusion was that the shield bubbles represented the wholly ineffectual to Dominion weapons technology, which was swapped for the only slightly less ineffectual but better than nothing skin-hugging shields which conveniently have no associated special effect technology?
Spandex Shields?
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
well, after Starfleet decided it didn't make for a good uniform, thay had to have used all that extra material for something. Of course, they kept enough to keep Troi firmlyt encased in spandex cat-suits for seven years.
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