posted
What is the Intrepid-class categorized as? We know Sovereign is an Explorer and Defiant is an Escort. I've seen Intrepid been called an Explorer and a Scout - but what is it officially? Medium Cruiser is also possible, I suppose. Someone other than Sternbach must know this...
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posted
There was just a huge discussion about this on Sternbach's newsgroup, actually. All we found out is that many people aren't aware of the purpose or definitions of naval designations.
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posted
Well, on the the show, Voyager was called a 'short -term explorer', which, I guess would count as a scout. And as for the Sovereign, well, she could be either heavy cruiser or explorer, but lets not get into a debate like this again
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
Does it matter what they came up with? It's a completely futile argument. The references to certain ships as corresponding to a certain naval classifications are truly rare (and actual canon ones more so), and yet some people insist that this means that every type of vehicle that floats on water has its equivalent in Starfleet. "The Type-9 shuttlepod is, er, um. . . a coracle!" they cry; demands that the Akira be recognised as an aircraft carrier cannot be far off.
It's the same kind of ego trip that lead to all the FASA and Ships of the Starfleet rubbish - the hope that if you can get enough people repeating your theory it will somehow become canon.
The current case - the Intrepid is the best case in point. No-one was disputing its status as a Scout, yet as soon as a glorified runabout/shuttlecraft (and that's all it was - the other Starfleet personnel involved in the Ba'ku project were stationed on the Son'a ship, remember? - appears and is referred to (with no real justification) as a scout, suddenly the Intrepid can't be a Scout, because scouts are small runabouts/shuttlecraft!
For the last time, just because Riker called the New Orleans a Frigate, it doesn't mean that there are also corvettes, schooners, Boston Whalers and whatever else out there! Riker's a f***wit! He may be the first ever Trek character to have all his dialogue declared on-canon! "NCC-1305-E!" "What's Trilithium? Oh, the stuff we nearly had stolen from us in a high-profile terrorist raid, how could I forget?"
posted
Yes I agree that riker is an idiot, but do we have any onscreen evidence that voyager is a scout? And I too loath naval classifications in startrek, but since riker's frigate comment or whatever, I have included both types in my comments, hence cruiser/scout.
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The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
OHHHH. . . Worf said it! That totally invalidates my argument, and I shall leave these Forums and never return. *door slams; footsteps go down path; car drives off* Sarcasm mode off.
Explorer isn't a naval designation, yet it's the most common designation we've seen. But of course it sounds very non-military, and after three years of tedious Vietnam allegory on DS9 (except this time the US didn't lose) that's not sexy.
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
"Fed up with ongoing petty arguments about inconsequential sh*te" mood is closer to the truth. I mean, am I the only one who thinks that inferring the existence of Starfleet Destroyers, Gondolas, Pedaloes and whatever else, purely from one throwaway line about a frigate, is anal-retentively moronic and far too militaristic for Starfleet?
Registered: Mar 1999
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JEM
Ex-Member
posted
'Pedaloes' brilliant *LOL*
tFO does have a point, you shouldn't expect to be able to apply 20th century classifications to 24th century vessels no more than you could refer to a modern warship as a 2nd Rate Ship of the Line which was the way warships were classified in Nelson's time. As for the reference to 'frigates' (whoever made it), who knows what the term refers to in the 24th century-it might be a garbage-scow for all we know.
I just regard all vessels as being explorers with the possible exception of the attack fighters (Perigrines?-quickly ducks) but some are better able to take care of themselves than others.
BTW I visited Frank's site earlier today and my free pencil still hasn't arrived. Who do I sue?
posted
Naval designations are normal English words, and they use late 20th-century English on Star Trek. The following, in order of size, are the primary naval designations:
Battleships (more armor) and battlecruisers (better speed) tend to be about the same size, as do gunships (more weapons) and corvettes (better speed). There are other more specific designations, also.
JEM: The pencil is in the mail.
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[This message has been edited by The Shadow (edited September 10, 1999).]
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
Interesting point: in 19th-century US English, a Corvette was larger than a Destroyer. . .
I don't think that you can just say "they speak late-20th century English on Trek, and Frigate means 'this', therefore Frigate means the same thing in the 23rd century."
It just doesn't hold up. The only possible designation you could give the Defiant would be Destroyer. Yet it's smaller than a New Orleans which is allegedly a Frigate. Unless they're using 19th century US Navy terms. . . 8)
We got Transports, Yes. We got Explorers and Scouts (and Escort, when they can't bring themselves to say the word 'warship'), indeedy. The only Naval term I really like is Cruiser. It's a beautiful word. It has roots in half a dozen European languages, all meaning "to cross." And what better function for Starfleet ships can there be? To cross the void, in search of knowledge. . . far better than some word that to all intents and purposes adds ". . . and we're going to blow the sh*t out on anything that gets in our way."
There are war Cruisers, yes. But there are also cabin cruisers, land cruisers, police cruisers. . . Say the word 'starcruiser' to yourself. Doesn't it sound magical? It could be anything, a passenger liner, a vessel of exploration or even a warship. And some Starfleet vessles are all those.
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
It's been a long day: I'm tired, I'm bored, and I've been banging on about this too much. I keep having this feeling I've not put my case, my own theories, across well enough.
Look at any naval ship: you can always tell what it's meant to be. You can't with a Starfleet ship. There's hardly any two classes that you can put next to each other and say "these two are meant to do the same thing." Starfleet isn't about a giant interstellar game of Battleships.
When I got into this subject, it was through the original Utopia Planitia. That incredibly non-canon conjectural stuff that said "Starfleet saw the need for a new ship that did this, this, this and this, while doing this" - not "Starfleet decided to build another type of Frigate." They're generalists. They don't DO specifics. One gets the impression that they'd never built a ship quite as specific as the Defiant before. Admiral Hanson said of Lt. Cdr. Shelby "she got us thinking in different ways" - was this what he meant?
posted
The Defiant can be a corvette or gunship (probably gunship).
"I don't think that you can just say 'they speak late-20th century English on Trek, and Frigate means 'this', therefore Frigate means the same thing in the 23rd century.'"
Yes you can. Otherwise Picard could ask for a pizza at a replicator and it would produce a tuna sandwich. It just wouldn't make sense.
Starfleet has plenty of specialised ships; they can do other stuff, but they were built for specific purposes. Otherwise Starfleet wouldn't be a viable organisation.
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