posted
Can someone tell me when the term Constitution-class was first used for the Enterprise?
It amazed me when I found out that the prototype space shuttle Enterprise (which by Star Trek rules would be called Enterprise-class) was originally named the Constitution. The Constitution was renamed Enterprise, and the Enterprise is Constitution-class, seems to make sense to me that Gene Roddenberry did that on purpose.
------------------ "Let's make sure that history never forgets the name...Enterprise." Federation Starship Datalink
�The NASA Space Shuttle prototype was originally called Constitution. A massive letter writing campaign had its name changed to Enterprise.
�The USS Enterprise NCC-1701 was Constitution-class.
My question is, when was the USS Enterprise first called Constitution-class? Did Gene Roddenberry name it after the original name of the Space Shuttle?
------------------ "Let's make sure that history never forgets the name...Enterprise." Federation Starship Datalink
posted
IIRC, the Enterprise was first called Constitution-class in "Court Martial". Therefore, no, it's just a rather neat coincidence.
------------------ "Maybe they're trying to breed them..." -guy in my math class, suggesting a reason for there being two overhead projectors in the classroom
posted
I always wondered... If the Enterprise was supposedly Starship-class and addressed as the "Federation starship Enterprise, should Picard have said, "This is Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the Federation galaxy Enterprise"... I can see it now.
If it's as early as "Court Martial", then the figured out the starship class around the time they figured out it was Starfleet.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
posted
I was thinking about htis the other day, and came to the tentative conclusion that the "Starship Class" would be like "Freighter Class" or "Fighter Class". What we call a "class" might have been referred to as "type" back then, then some reason the Feds turned the system around, with "Constitution Class" taking the older name's place.
*shrug* :]
------------------ "She's never letting me forget, I've always been an idiot" -The Verve Pipe
------------------ "Maybe they're trying to breed them..." -guy in my math class, suggesting a reason for there being two overhead projectors in the classroom
Jim Phelps
watches Voyager AFTER 51030
Member # 102
posted
You gotta understand that there probably were no other STAR ships in the TOS era, that's why referring to the Constitution class as Starship class was ok. There were other Starfleet designs, Daedalus and possibly others, but their function must have been something very different from that of the old Enterprise.
BTW, did anyone find it interesting that the original meaning of 1701 was rationalized by Matt Jefferies as the first ship of the 17th Starfleet ship design? (TOS Sketchbook) I wonder to what extent we can still use this.
Boris
------------------ "Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."
---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide
[This message has been edited by Boris (edited September 14, 1999).]
posted
I've wondered about that, myself. Here's my theory. Each block of 100 would be reserved for a specific class of ship, and the individual numbers would be doled out as needed. (We have 100's for Dadelaus, 600's for Oberths, 1700's for Constitutions, 1800's for Mirandas, 1900's for Soyuzes, and 2000's for Excelciors. I'm using some #s from ed. 1 Encyclopedia, so if any of this is wrong, please inform me. Anyone know what would fill in the spaces consistantly, preferably using onscreen #s, of course?) Of course, the Enterprise would be an exception.
This may only hold for the 23rd century, but if it does for 24th as well, then the following may apply. The reason that so many ships with low numbers have been appearing lately is because when a new class is designed and submitted, there is a block reserved for it, whether it actually gets built or not. After the decimation of the fleet by the Borg, Starfleet re-evaluated several failed designs, and maybe even still-existing prototypes, and chose some of them for refitting with modern technology, some only as "escort vessels", reguardless of what their original intent was.
Does anyone know the numbers on Yamato, Odyssey, and Galaxy? How about any ship that has a number 73***? Just curious about what would come between Defiant and Intrepid.
------------------ "By all means, take the moral high ground -- all that heavenly backlighting makes you a much easier target." - Solomon Short
2265 "Where No Man Has Gone Before" Dedication plaque reads "Starship Class" 2266 "The Menagerie" Commodore Jose I Menendez refers to a Class J starship that is now used for training missions. Eighteen years later [nineteen years later], in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, a computer screen identifies the USS Enterprise as a Type S Heavy Cruiser. In the Star Trek Universe, type and class are used in the same context-to describe a specific design of ship which has been tested through a prototype and mass produced through sister ships. Though these are the only two references known for this alphabetic classification [J and S], this may suggest that other classes were likewise identified. Also important, the older classes are identified with higher letters [J] and newer classes by lower letters [S]. 2287 Star Trek V: The Final Frontier Dedication plaque has the USS Enterprise identified as "Constitution Class". This would imply that the change from the older system [Starship Class, Scout Class-used to describe the USS Grissom in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock] occured between 2285 and 2286. By 2293, all primary ships of Starfleet were using the newer classification system. However, even in the late 2360's, there are certain classes of starships which were identified by the older classification system. Such an example is in the pilot episode of DS9-"The Emissary"-where Commander Sisko said "...runabout class ships..." in a log entry.
Certain points- *Commander Spock identified the USS Constellation as having starship configuration in "The Doomsday Machine". This suggests that the starships in the 2260's were Constitution Class. This is validated by statements in the Making of Star Trek by Whitfield and Roddenberry which say that starships are of the USS Enterprise type and are the most advanced in the fleet. *The registries of many of the Constitution Class starships are not known canonically. The only ones known canonically are the USS Constellation, the USS Constitution, the USS Eagle, the USS Endeavor, the USS Enterprise, the USS Kongo, the USS Potemkin, and the USS Republic. The registries of the other ships are not known. There is a wall chart in "Court Martial" which lists starships by registries. This wall chart could be used to fill in the blanks. *The USS Carolina is identified as being a starship operational in the 2260's and is on neutral zone patrol in the episode "Friday's Child". Since all starships of this decade are identified with Constitution Class, I have placed this ship in this class. *On a digression, it may be possible that the scouts USS Columbia and USS Revere are of the Oberth Class [Scout Class]. When mention is made of the Scout Class, Admiral Kirk jumps to the assumption that the ship has to be the USS Grissom. This may imply that there is one kind of scout class ship as there is one kind of starship class ship. The earliest reference to a scout in TOS is in "The Apple" which occured in 2267. There is nothing which prohibits the second occurence of a class where the "prototype" is built after sister ships of the class.
As for the idea that blocks may be set aside for ship classes, I disagree. After doing a list of ships from the lowest [NCC-173] to the highest [NCC-75633], I got the distinct feeling that the registries were similar to results which I would get if I asked a computer to do a query for starship registries. For instance, I ask a computer to get a list of Excelsiors in the range 42000 to 43000. The computer would come back with USS Al Batani, USS Cairo, USS Charleston, USS Grissom, USS Hood, USS Lakota, and the name of the ship which bears the registry NCC-42111. Within that range, there a thousand units. Of that, seven units are identified as being Excelsior. This is 0.007 percent of the range. This is the high end of the percentile range. If I do only ships with canonical registries such as the USS Charleston and the USS Hood, the percentage is 0.004. This is too small to draw a conclusion. However, if you wish to broad, you could say there are a thousand Excelsiors, one for each unit in the above named range. [For the above named ranges, the percentages run as follows-600 canonical 0.04 to 0.05 if the USS Columbia is counted; 1700 canonical 0.03 to 0.08 including NCC-1718 from "Court Martial" (the class of the USS John Muir is unknown); 1800 canonical 0.02 to 0.02 (points about 1800-*there is a Constitution Class starship in the range; *I believe the registry of the USS Saratoga to be NCC-1937, my personal experience with the Encyclopedias has led me to believe that the entries are more accurate than the ship list-there is canonical evidence from okudagram to support the registry of NCC-62136 for the USS Zhukov; *the class of the USS Emden is unknown)] With the above evidence and my personal beliefs, I do not accept the idea of blocks or ranges of registries being given over to a single class. Further evidence- 2000 USS Jenolan NCC-2010 Sydney Class 34000 Block could be for Istanbul Class ships. However, there is an Excelsior-the USS Livingston 38000 Block could be for Excelsior Class ships. However, there is an Istanbul-the USS Sarajevo.
The process for building a class is known from canonical and official sources. Study Model to Prototype to Sister Ships. What is lacking in the understanding is how registries are determined. What is known *registries do not indicate age [the USS Prometheus NX-59650 is newer than the USS Prometheus NCC-71201; the USS Oberth should be about sixty to forty years older than the Constitution Class ships by the 2260's, but she isn't-she is still operation in 2293 and her class is in operation in 2371-if registries are applied chronologically, the class should be over 150 years old at the most conservative by the year 2370] *registries do not indicate class [I can't tell the class for the NCC-71325] *registries do tell us if the ship is Starfleet and who owns the ship-the UFP *registries are based on a Earth counting system *registries do not always have to have a name attached [NCC-73918 or NCC-75227] *registries are applied before the name *a special bureau can change the registry of a ship; however, a captain can change the name of a ship with a special order from Starfleet but can't change the registry of a ship *registries are placed on the forward upper bow of a ship or at the very front of a ship [first example, Constitution or Akira and second, Danube or Sydney] *the placement of the remaing registry signages is determined by class there may be other registry rules or observations
posted
The thought that occurs to me regarding registries is to suppose blocks of numbers are allocated to shipyards. Larger yards would presumably be able to construct more ships simultaneously and some shipyards may speciallise in building smaller vessels. Either way the range of allocated numbers allocated to specific ships could differ markedly even though they are built at the same time.
An example. Starfleet decides to proceed with the construction of a new type of ship (which we later know as 'Constitution-class'). The contract (or what passes for contracts) for construction of the prototype is awarded to the San Francisco fleetyard who allocate it their next available number NCC-1700. Just as construction gets underway, Starfleet decides not to wait for the prototype to be completed and tested but instead places contracts for the construction of two more. One contract also goes to San Francisco who allocate the number NCC-1701 to the new ship. The other contact is awarded to a different (much smaller) yard who are only upto the low thousands They allocate their next available number NCC-1071. When construction off all three ships is finished the USS Constitution, USS Enterprise and USS Constellation have widely differing numbers but all built at the same time.
Now consider the case of NX-59650. The project is started and allocated to a construction facility, the registry number is assigned and fixed. Preliminary work is started but considerable problems develop. Maybe new admirals and politicians come to power who were hostile to the whole concept. For whatever reason construction is more and more delayed and comes close to cancellation. Meanwhile the Nebula class ship NCC-71201 is launched and given the name USS Prometheus. Again the situation changes, what were once insurmountable problems become solved, the design of the still uncomplete NX-59650 is changed and construction resumes. The Nebula class USS Prometheus suffers some catastrophic failure serious enough for Starfleet to scrap the whole vessel. Just before decommissioning the ship is given one last undemanding task, is put under the command of a junior officer and assigned to assist a civilian scientist. Eventually NX-59650 is finally launched and given the (now available) name of USS Prometheus.
Yes I know its all a bit contrived but it would allow a sensible explaination for the numbering scheme, registry numbers are chronological but with a major proviso and are fixed once the construction facility gets the go-ahead or contract or whatever. The ships actual name is not generally fixed until construction is almost complete or until launching.
Any comments? Does anyone know how many different construction facilities there are in the TOS and TNG era?
Incidentally I also have a theory as to the Yamato's strange change in registry number (other than Riker is a complete crettin) and why the Enterprise seems to be the only exception to the numbering rule. If anyone is interested I'll get around to typing it up and posting.