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Author Topic: smaller = better?
BlueElectron
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As long as Star Trek exist as one of the best entertainment on the TV, there will always be one arguement:

If a small, well armed starship(such as Defiant) is to go face to face with a larger, advance starship(such as Sovereign) in a confrontation, which will win the battle?

As weapon technologies progress through time, militaries always find themselves ending up with bigger guns, whether if it is tanks, ships, or airplanes; there are several explantions for this "bigger is better" trend:

1. Strength
-In the case of Star Trek, a larger starship will be able to carry more weapons(bigger tropedo storge) at higher power, since that the size of the weapon is always proportional to it's destructive power(bigger phaser crystal = more power for the phaser output).

2. Defense
-The size of a bigger starship also means that it can be fitted with much more armors, better shield(larger generators at more locations), more sophisticated senors, and most importantly, it will be able to "take more hits"(important components of the starship can be spread out at different places, or having more back-up devices)

3. Efficiency
-The large body of professional personnels will be able to carry out ship tasks with more man-power and resourses avaiable.


So, does a smaller ship stand a chance? Of course! I have no dought that Definant have a good chance of taking on any big ship in the Star Trek universe one on one with victory at its' hand, but as a die-hard fan of "BOTH" DS9 and TNG I'll have to say that Soverign class definately have higher favour of winning the battle.

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Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs
astronauts gotta get paid
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Is this a Defiant vs Sovereign thread?

Anyway, each has it's own benefits. BUT, Starfleet is not primarily a military organization, so the usefulness of small, heavily armed ships come to an end when there is no battle to be fought.

Larger ships are most certainly better for exploration, as they can just hold more...stuff.

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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee


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Aethelwer
Frank G
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Of course, when was the last time the UFP wasn't at war with someone? There was the Tzenkethi, and the Cardassians until 2368, and...

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Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs
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They've only been at war because the producers know that their primary audience is 18-24 males, and we like to see things bet blowed up!

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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee


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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
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Let's put it to you this way.

The Sovereign has a lot of surface area. It is simply a target too big to miss. However, it has a lot of sophisticated weaponry, shielding, and armour. Theoretically, it CAN take a lot of hits, but when it is constantly being pounded from all signs, all those defenses would simply be delaying the inevitable.

Now, the Defiant is a very small, but well armed ship. Also, it's pretty fast, therefore it could fly circles around the Sovereign. You saw how well the Defiant did against the Negh'Var. Same situation. The Defiant would be moving too fast for the Sovereign to get a good lock.

Now don't get too comfy though. The Sovereign's weaps ARE strong, so if the Defiant gets hit, it WILL hurt. Alot.

In such a battle, anything can depend on the situation. Things such as the expertise of the pilot, pre fight damage, etc can determine who wins and who loses. Just because the Defiant is small doesn't mean that it will win every single spacefight. Just look at the Valiant, it got SQUASHED by the huge Jemmie battleship.

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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation

[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited January 09, 2000).]


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Justin_Timberland
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Ah...should I bring up the Lakota/Defiant incident? I might as well...

The Defiant was able to hold it's own when both ships fought. But then again, neither used quantum torpedoes, just phasers and pulse cannons. The Defiant did more damage to the Lakota, even with the upgrades.

What I'm trying to say is that the deciding factor in a battle between a *small* ship and a *big* ship would be the crew on the ships. Now, if the crew of the Defiant Class USS Valiant went up against Picard and his crew onboard the Enterprise-E, guess who will win?

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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
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Just wanted to point something out... I don't think a larger emitter crystal will make a more powerful phaser beam on its own. Granted, if you want a large phaser blast, you need a large crystal, but you'll need a large phaser generator, too.

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Austin Powers
Slightly warped
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IMHO, one of the best examples for the theory smaller=better is the DS9 Ep "The Jem'Hadar". The Runabouts were able to fight the Jemmie Bugs, yet the Odyssey looked real slow and limp, especially once it tried to retreat.
It just was a target too big to miss, even without the suicide run of the Jem'Hadar ship.

A always thought about a ship like the Defiant in those days and how wonderful it would perform in such a situation. Imagine my satisfaction when I first saw "The Search" ;-)

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[This message has been edited by Austin Powers (edited January 09, 2000).]


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Montgomery
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The fate of the Odyssey is perhaps an unfair example to cite against big ships like Galaxies. First: they were up against a foe who could shoot straight through their shields and thus they swiftly lost manoueverability as the Jemmies shot up their nacelles. Second: galaxies are, according to the Tech manual, capable of being quite nimble in battle situations, but the prohibitive cost of featuring a moving model in an SFX shot kept them from looking anything but bulky and immobile until the recent advent of CGI in DS9's later seasons.

As to the Big vs Small question, there are plenty of parallels in the real world. Who would win in a fight? A lioness or an elephant? A tyranosaurus rex or a velociraptor?

It depends who attacks first and how lucky they are. The potential is to go either way, depending on the skill of those in command. Which is faster? Subspace fields mean they are effectively equally fast, albeit the bigger one needs mre energy to be so nimble. And whose to say a small ship would get a chance to circle the bigger opponent? Long-range detection and one good blast from a galaxy-class phaserbank and your sneaky little attacker gets a nacelle blown off.

The benefits of a small craft size only become a winning formula if you move in packs. A battle group of Defiants would be a terrifying sight, whereas a convoy of galaxies would be worried about bumping into each other as they manouvered.

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That man is bereft of passion... and imagination!
That is not who I am!"


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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
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Makes ya wonder why they didn't put together a whole wing of DEFIANTS during the war.

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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation


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BlueElectron
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Totally agree with Montgomery there.

In WWII and WWI it is the "PACK" that made the German submarine famous.

And for TSN, I think SF will be more likely to fit larger generators or maybe more of them on a larger starship just because it gets more internal space.

Granted that Defiant's agile manoueverbility may gives it some advantages, but with long range sensors and sophisticated targeting systems around, I doubt that it will be a decisive factor in winning a battle.


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Michael Dracon
aka: NightWing or Altair
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I think we should also count in the 'human' factor. A good captain with a lot of experience and an excelent pilot at the helm will probably do more damage than a novice crew.
Look, for example, at 'Shattered Mirror' (btw: Sisko should have piloted the Defiant more often, the way he moved the Defiant around in the mirror universe was very impressive).

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AndrewR
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Hey, also I think if they separated the saucer section in The Jem'Hadar - they might have had a better chance too...

The shots of the Galaxy in WYLB - make sense actually stayput and fire! fire! fire!

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"All the lonely people, where do they all come from" - Eleanor Rigby, The Beatles.



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Aban Rune
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I thought the combination of the fast moving ships and the slow moving Galaxies in battle scenes like Sac of Angels were great! You've got all these little ships zipping around hammering on bad guys then up from the bottom of the screen comes this juggernaut Galaxy firing in three different directions at once. Killer!

This is actually great strategy. The Galaxies provide cover fire for the faster ships. The enemy would have to focus on one or the other and could be attacked by either the Galaxy or the fighters, which ever one was being ignored.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx


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warbird5
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it was just beautiful when we saw the galaxy wings tearing about those cardassians wrships.
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