posted
This line of dialogue from the episode "The Doomsday Machine" is the topic of this thread.
Configuration is defined as "The form of a figure as determined by the arrangement of its parts; outline; contour."
I interpret this line as saying that starships of the 2260's had the same basic design-a circular primary hull connected to a long tubular secondary hull with two connected smaller tubes for the warp engines. If there were other configurations of starships, wouldn't have Mr. Spock identified the ship by class, as he did with Harry Mudd's cargo ship ("Mudd's Women")?
And this line gives information on the other ships of the fleet. No other class in the fleet had the same configuration of parts as did the U.S.S. Enterprise and her sister ships. These ships were unique in their appearance.
I use this line as evidence that the U.S.S. Carolina ("Friday's Child") is a Constitution Class starship. She is identified as a starship by the U.S.S. Enterprise bridge crew.
posted
Another possibility is that starship simply meant "Starfleet vessel of certain size and capabilities" and all of those had two distinguishing and easily identifiable features: saucer primary hulls, and standoff nacelles for the warp coils. These features would distinguish the ships sufficiently from just about everything else we saw (except the Romulan vessel which arguably had saucer and nacelles, but she wasn't Starfleet). And semantically, specifying the primary hull as a saucer and specifying the positioning of the warp coils as being in nacelles equals describing the "configuration", at least AFAIC.
So in essence, if sensors show a ship with a saucer and nacelles, it is likely to be a big Starfleet exploration-and combat-capable deep space vessel, that is, a starship. Constitutions, Mirandas, Federations, Loknars... All of those meet the criteria. Antareses, Independences, Sydneys, class J freighters, alien ships, and assorted other space junk do not.
posted
It seems like this is yet again an argument for the early Starfleet classification using the term 'starship'.
First, the Enterprise is said to be a Starship Class ship. This is most likely not the name of the class, but more the type of ship. Second, in "Relics", Scotty says he 'served on cruiser,.... and starships'. This also seems to imply that starship was a distinguished type of ship. And this particular line of dialogue also says that by configuration (e.g. capabilities, weaponry, etc.) the particular ship was of the type 'Starship', instead of a cruiser, tanker or something different.
So, this is evidence that the USS Carolina is of the 'starship' type, but it doesn't necessarily say what class it is. IMHO of course ------------------ "Dynamics is like playing hockey with a flexible hockey stick" -My Physics teacher --- Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site
[This message has been edited by Prakesh (edited November 29, 2000).]
posted
Do they refer to alien ships as starships? Seems like they may call it generally a vessel or a ship, or specifically a warbird or battlecruiser but not a starship. OTOMH, I can't recall any mention of Klingon or Breen starships. So maybe they reserve the term for frontline Fed ships. It can't apply to every ship with interstellar capability, otherwise warp-capable shuttles would be included.
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I can't remember any definite references to alien starships, either. I do remember, though, that Scotty actually said he had served on "cruisers, freighters... starships". There was no "and" there. Perhaps he meant to use "starship" as a designation that would include the vessels he had listed before? That is, cruisers and freighters would be some of the starship types in existence.
Another possibility is that Scotty was enumerating the "operational categories" of the ships he had served on: cruisers (as in pleasure cruisers, cruise liners, Love Boats), freighters (as in commercial cargo carriers) and starships (as in any Starfleet vessels of military or exploration persuasion). So the "cruiser" in this list would not be the same as the "heavy cruiser" in Starfleet designation schemes, but more like the civilian "space cruiser Aurora" of TOS "Way to Eden" infamy.
A third possibility is of course that Scotty was using the old 23rd century system where "starship" was a ship designation comparable to cruiser or frigate, possibly a less offending analogy to today's "battleship" - just as you suggest. I also like to think that this is what "starship" originally meant after the term had been coined specifically for the Constitution class, but that the word very soon came to mean all Starfleet vessels. Even pre-Constitution spaceships were then retconned as starships, even if nobody back in 2196 had referred to the Daedalus vessels by that name.
posted
TIMO I agree with your last statement. There is evidence to support this contention.
In 2253, the year of the episode "The Cage", the U.S.S. Enterprise is identified as United Star Ship Enterprise. This is the earliest recorded instance of the word 'starship' being used. Strangely, in this early period of the Enterprise's life, she carried no dedication plate.
12 years later, the Enterprise has a plate that identifies her as of the Starship Class.
2 years later, the Class J starship is mentioned. This starship is older than the Enterprise. This is the first known instance in Star Trek history that different starship classes, from the primary class, are identified.
Decades later, the U.S.S. Reliant and the U.S.S. Excelsior are identified as starships. I see the Constitution Class having probably the following ships by year:
2253 NCC-956 U.S.S. Eagle NCC-1017 U.S.S. Constellation NCC-1371 U.S.S. Republic NCC-1647 U.S.S. Farrugut NCC-1657 U.S.S. Potemkin NCC-1664 U.S.S. Excalibur NCC-1672 U.S.S. Exeter NCC-1685 U.S.S. C- or D- NCC-1697 U.S.S. Essex NCC-1700 U.S.S. Constitution NCC-1701 U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1703 U.S.S. Hood NCC-1709 U.S.S. Lexington NCC-1710 U.S.S. Kongo (If there was an earlier U.S.S. Constitution, this ship had to be destroyed before 2253.)
2267 "Tommorow is Yesterday" NCC-956 U.S.S. Eagle NCC-1017 U.S.S. Constellation NCC-1371 U.S.S. Republic NCC-1657 U.S.S. Potemkin NCC-1664 U.S.S. Excalibur NCC-1672 U.S.S. Exeter NCC-1700 U.S.S. Constitution NCC-1701 U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1703 U.S.S. Hood NCC-1709 U.S.S. Lexington NCC-1710 U.S.S. Kongo NCC-1717 U.S.S. Yorktown NCC-1831 U.S.S. Intrepid (Capt. Kirk says there are twelve ships like the U.S.S. Enterprise in the Star Fleet. If you count the above list, you will see there are twelve ships, plus one-the Enterprise, to make thirteen. The unknown NCC-1685 C- or D-, NCC-1718 C- or D, and NCC-1697 U.S.S. Essex were destroyed before this episode.)
2267 "Friday's Child" U.S.S. Carolina is added to the list of Constitution Class starships. She is new to the fleet and has her name given to a later 24th century starship. The known number of Constitution Class starships is 14.
2267 "The Doomsday Machine" U.S.S. Constellation is lost. Number is now 13.
2268 "The Immunity Syndrome" U.S.S. Intrepid is lost. Number is now 12.
2268 "The Ultimate Computer" U.S.S. Excalibur is lost. Number is now 11.
2268 "The Omega Glory" U.S.S. Exeter is probably deemed unuseable as a result of contagion aboard ship and is destroyed. (ex. U.S.S. Lantree). Number is now 10.
2268 "The Tholian Web" U.S.S. Defiant NCC-1764 is added to the list of Constitution Class starships. Before her crew has time to decide on ship symbol, she is lost. Number is 12 and then 11. (The uniforms of the Defiant crew carry no insignia. She is given an older registry.)
2269 Ships in class NCC-956 U.S.S. Eagle NCC-1371 U.S.S. Republic NCC-1657 U.S.S. Potemkin NCC-1700 U.S.S. Constitution NCC-1701 U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1703 U.S.S. Hood NCC-1709 U.S.S. Lexington NCC-1710 U.S.S. Kongo NCC-1717 U.S.S. Yorktown NCC- U.S.S. Carolina The class have one or two ships that are not known at this point. Between 2269 and 2280, the U.S.S. Endeavor is built.
2286 Constitution Class ships are being constructed. One of these new ships is the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-A.
2293 Known ships in fleet NCC-956 U.S.S. Eagle NCC-1371 U.S.S. Republic NCC-1657 U.S.S. Potemkin NCC-1701-A U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1710 U.S.S. Kongo NCC-1717 U.S.S. Yorktown NCC-1895 U.S.S. Endeavor
2293 U.S.S. Enterprise is retired for p.r. and political reasons. A new ship, the U.S.S. Enterprise, is launched. This ship reflects the hopes and confidence of Starfleet in a new class of ships, the Excelsior.
2324 U.S.S. Republic begins service as a cadet ship.
2367 An unknown Constitution Class starship is identified in the wreckage of Wolf 359. This ship, broken in two, fought in the conflict and was subsequently destroyed. This starship had to be less than 100 years old to be fit for combat.
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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory
[This message has been edited by targetemployee (edited November 30, 2000).]
posted
Thanks to everyone for catching my mistake. TSN I used the accepted registries of ships fouund in the encyclopedias and matched the information to the chart given in "Court Martial". The chart reads from top to bottom-
If the list is alphabetical from bottom to top, then the two ships between U.S.S. Constitution and U.S.S. Enterprise must begin with the letters C, D, or E. There can be no other choice.
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