posted
What we did in the Star Charts was a compromise of sorts between two concepts: a RNZ that "separates the planets Romulus and Remus from the rest of the galaxy", as Spock says, and a RNZ that merely draws a curtain over the private parts of the two adversaries while leaving the sides wide open.
By having a RNZ that forms more than a half-sphere (think of a gigantic shower cap), the UFP could effectively contain Romulan expansion in the direction of Earth without preventing all expansion. The Romulans, if the losing party (as they themselves perceive in "The Defector"), might agree to this.
And the canonically shown curvature of the RNZ is always in the UFP's favor, in this picture, in the "The Defector" 'gram, in the original TOS map, and even in the ST2 computer graphics (assuming that was the RNZ). All this reinforces the idea that the Romulans were indeed being caged in.
The only case where the border is shown concave from the UFP side is the floor artwork in "Nemesis"... Which pretty much invalidates the Star Charts.
quote:Originally posted by Timo: The only case where the border is shown concave from the UFP side is the floor artwork in "Nemesis"... Which pretty much invalidates the Star Charts.
I prefer to think that with all of Nemesis' technical errors, they didn't do their research to discover that the TNG Okudagram and the TOS viewscreen chart were there and canon first.
quote:Originally posted by Timo: The only case where the border is shown concave from the UFP side is the floor artwork in "Nemesis"... Which pretty much invalidates the Star Charts.
Not necessarily - remember space is 3d.
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quote:Originally posted by Topher: I think that in TOS Movie times there was a Klingon NZ.
Correct. Though it was referred in Star Trek Maps and other printed sources as a "Disputed Treaty Zone" or some such. It was established by the Organian Peace Treaty from "Errand of Mercy" (TOS) and was abolished after the Khitomer Conference in TUC. This was the Zone that was referred to in TWO in the Kobayashi Maru simulation, not the Romulan Neutral Zone and it was referred to again in TUC.
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posted
After the Kobayashi Maru simulation was over, Kirk specifically said "the Klingons don't take prisoners." I'm sure Saavik would've raised an eyebrow if she'd thought that she was fighting the Romulans....
If the Organian treaty didn't specify a Neutral Zone (and a Klingon NZ wasn't mentioned during the TV series), then maybe the KNZ was instituted some time in the 2270's, after the Organians "disappeared." In the volatile world of international politics, it makes perfect sense for there to be some kind of shift in the arrangements -- after all, the Romulans had full diplomatic relations with the Federation a decade or so later.
Anyway, I think it'd be easier to think that the ellipsoid NZ seen in TWOK was the short-lived Klingon zone -- which conveniently avoids any strict limitations on the delineation of the Romulan zone.
Also, you've got to remember that TNG involves faster travel times compared to TOS -- so it's easy to believe that at least some of the TNG incidents took place far away from the original theaters of operation. (The "Nemesis" map excepted, though -- because from what I saw of that graphic, I think it was supposed to be representing both Romulus and Earth.)
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posted
Oh, how I'd have loved it if the ST2 folks had had the budget to actually build and shoot Romulan ships there, instead of just reusing TMP stock footage...
Anybody in possession of early script versions? The Gamma Hydra thing was a rather clear reference to Romulans, as was the concept of a Neutral Zone. When were Klingons substituted?
The "Nemesis" floor art seems to correctly show the classic TOS map region, plus a concave area extending beyond that map. Had I seen this two years ago, out of the window would have flown the nicely ellipsoid RNZ! Also, if the gridlines on the map are oriented along the quadrant line, then clearly the RNZ extends to the Alpha quadrant big time, no matter what the orientation (out of the two to four horizontal and two to four vertical possibilities that don't make UFP a Beta quadrant entity!).
Ideally, I'd retain the current Star Charts RNZ map as the TOS configuration, and say that sometime around Tomed the shape was altered in the Romulans' favor.
posted
Well, I don't know anything about the Klingons being Romulans in an earlier draft of the film, but the ships, and thus presumably the zone, were obviously Klingon by the time they finished making it. Okuda makes a point of it being the first time the "Klingon zone" is mentioned. Though, come to think of it, it might be the only time.
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posted
In "The Undiscovered Country" they make a couple of references to the end of "the" Neutral Zone.
Which brings up an interesting question... I've wondered if (from the Federation's point of view) they simply extended the Romulan NZ along their border with the Klingons? Obviously it would've been implemented with separate treaties, but it could have effectively become a single border rather than two.
Although I've never understood the reason for a Neutral Zone that separated the Klingons from the Romulans... at least, not one that was established by dialogue.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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