posted
Hi all, been a while since I posted here, but since I recently got back into making Trek models I thought you guys might like to rip this boxy creation to bits...
I'll try and explain my thinking on this one. I've been reading a lot about battleship evolution and naval warfare back in the 19th and 20th century, and found it fascinating how things progressed. This ship, the USS Vigilant, is basically a mixture of the current AEGIS ships in the US inventory and also meant to be used as destroyers were in the first half of the 20th century. That is, it can act as a picket ship for a fleet, warning of approaching threats and dealing with them using it's guided weapons (in this case the twin torpedos mounted behind armour on the nose), or it can charge in on large ships and fleets like a destroyer and fire off a salvo of torpedos.
I figure the most powerful weapon in the Starfleet arsenal is the torpedo, so why not make it the primary weapon and let a small ship pack a real dangerous punch? I gave this ship additional sensor pallet either side, which I imagine will let it detect stuff much more readily than normal craft this size, and if we assume the twin launchers can fire a salvo of 5 shots each, then it really packs a wallop. Being an angular design and built around existing launchers and technology it should be easy to mass produce should war break out, and likewise easy to repair. So in the end I hope I got a small, tough ship that's hard to sneak past and deadly in a rush. Whaddya think, is it or is it a fugly waste of Starfleet time?
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Registered: Jun 2003
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I like it, the pragmatic design and the nice box launchers are appealing. But it does seem to have some phaser strips, doesn't it? Dimensions? Warp capabbies?
-------------------- "I'm nigh-invulnerable when I'm blasting!" Mel Gibson, X-Men
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I wouldn't imagine it to be all that fast, despite being small and having good sized engines I think the shape is less than ideal for speed at warp, but at impulse I gave it a decent sized set of engines so it can boogie. No point giving it armarment for use against large ships if it cant dash in, manouever and get out again.
It carries 8 phaser arrays should it need them, but obviously for tackling larger prey it uses it's main armourment. The phasers are the equivelant of a destroyers quick-fire guns, purely secondary armourment for fending off attacks when in range and fighting while the main launchers are reloaded for another salvo. I assumed the launchers to be similar to the units mounted in the Galaxy class, which I believe can launch salvos of up to 5 torps at a time.
Dimensions according to my 3D program are 180 metres long, 48 wide and about 34 high. It has space for 9 decks, just, but i made it sort of 8 decks with the centre decks offset slightly from the outer decks, if you know what I men. A small set of steps between each, if you will.
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posted
I like it, I an see a little bit of the influence you had in the US Navys Arleigh Burke class destroyer in the shape.
-------------------- "Who cares if we bomb a few hospitals, it just means we got them a second time" Warrant Officer Robert Clift, CVN-71 OEF
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Ah... I don't see where the torp launchers are... maybe because I've been playing with SimCity 4 for the last 18 hours.
-------------------- "It speaks to some basic human needs: that there is a tomorrow, it's not all going to be over with a big splash and a bomb, that the human race is improving, that we have things to be proud of as humans." -Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek
Registered: May 1999
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posted
I also miss the Torps' position....ah! "Bueaty shot 2" has them. We talking about Photons or Quantums? Mabye some combo of the two (as Quantums seem to be rare even into the Nemesis era).
It's a niiice design as a patrol ship- something "cheap" to build quickly to shore up he Federation's borders post-Dominion War.
To get nix-picky: While I applaud the use of Akira-esque impulse drives at the rear, I'd lengthen the phaser strips by mabye 50%. Defensive or not, it's the phasers that cover most of the ship's firing arcs.
I'd add some more details to the bridge and square off the top of the bridge a bit....mabye even try the Intrepid's bridge (without those side-rooms) up there.
I'd definitely add some curves to the forward hull- not a lot, but along the outer edge of the "saucer" so it's not so starkly geometric in shape.
I'd leave the torp launchers out always: I hate moving parts on starships and the launchers serve to deploy probes and other useful devices the ship might use every day, so why hide em?
There's a lot of dead space between the registry and the launchers- mabye room for a sensor pallate or powered*down aux deflector.
Amazing execution of a solid design- I saved it in my "to be built" (someday) folder!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Thanks for the intelligent comment Jason, good to get feedback like that.
I cant really go back and add curves to it now, for the hassle it would cause it wouldn't be worth my while and I'd be as well making a completely new ship, something I plan on doing once I get that little discus ship out of the way. I will then solicit all your help in designing that from scratch.
Not sure what you mean about squaring off the top of the bridge, it's pretty square already and I also got a lot of flack for it being too square anyway. Opinion seems to be divided on the subject. Can you give me a sketch or something to illustrate?
I am always wary of quantum torpedos, as you say they seem to be fairly rare for the sort of time period this ship appears to inhabit, and I despise overgunning something just because it's pretty simple to write a mega-weapon rather than really build or use one. I think a 10 torpdeo salvo would be a major kick in the teeth for any ship, never mind using something as esoteric as quantum torpedos. If we assume they're an expensive rarity then perhaps we can say it carries a mixture of photon/quantum at a sort of 9 to 1 ratio, enough for one salvo maybe.
The dead space between the launchers and the registry is bugging me a little too, but i rationalised it by assuming that much of the front upper section of the ship is devoted to the launchers and associated stores and equipment. I didn't want to go cutting into that space on such a small ship without good reason, as a pet peeve of mine is people making or designing surface detail with no though of what must be behind it to make it work. I might try a little aux deflector though, and see how it looks. I'm not convinced though.
This is also one of the reasons I made the launchers behind armour plate rather than always out. I reason that if this small ship is carrying a heavy load of high explosive, the last thing you want is for a lucky (or well aimed) hit taking out the launcher and with it the torpedo store. That would be a bad thing, again reminiscent of what happened to several British ships at the battle of Jutland back in 1915. I figure that Starfleet tech is pretty well sorted and reliable enough, so putting them behind a moving plate is not a major worry for me. Worst case scenario is you blow the plate off with explosive bolts.
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Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
The "squared off" bridge comment was meant more for the shape of the bridge itself to be like the Intrepid's (without those silly side-offices!) or possibly recessed like the Nova class has it's bridge.
Instead of an Aux Deflector, you could just add a pair of transporter emitters in that empty space- it's functinal that way without adding a big glowing bullseye over yuor torp launchers. Not too terrible to add in either as they'd be almost flush with the hull.
I agree with your idea on Quantum torps entirely: At 8/2 ratio, the ship might have a total of 50 Q-Torps (when fully loaded). More than enough to do serious damage to most ships as a first strike and would allow your ship to fight a delaying battle untill backup arrives. At 8/2, your ship is tough, but not "Uber".
I dont imagine this class is used for long-term missions: mostly patrol and rapid response along the borders. Mabye it operates in pairs within a given sector?
I have -in my fleet o ships- a couple of torpedo boats that would use long range probes to increase their effective sensor range over several systems. It would justify having so many launchers to other governments at least.
Small, well thought out ships like this make much more sense to me than some gimmicky "Multi-Vector-Fanboy" ship.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I have long been of the opinion that many fan Trek designs suffer badly from the 'does anything and everything' philosophy bred by watching hero ships fight off all sorts of threats every week and come out unscathed. No ship can do everything well, it is impossible and can spoil otherwise good design thinking.
Originally battleships were the be all and end all, floating fortresses that held the high seas in their grasp. Then along came the torpedo boat and suddenly much smaller craft could swarm and take out battleships for far less cost per unit, and spread the investment over many hulls. They invented the torpedo boat destroyer (later just Destroyer) to accompany the battleships. Larger than the MTBs and almost as fast and manoueverable, but with quick firing guns to take them out.
Then the submarine came along and once again the ships of the fleet were completely open to attack. Once again the Destroyer evolved and gained a new anti-submarine role, the hull once again getting larger as equipment and longer times at sea were required of it. Next came the carrier borne aircraft and the whole ballgame changed again. Anit-aircraft guns had to be fitted everywhere and fleet air cover became essential to stop the fleet being wiped out. Then came radar, guided missiles, homing torpedos, etc, etc.
The lesson is clear. No one craft can be carrier, nimble destroyer, anti-fighter, anti-stealth, stealth, battleship, landing assault ship, scout, frigate, drydock or whatever else there is that would undoubtedly make up a well rounded fleet. Sure, explorers have to be versatile to stand a good chance of surviving whatever they might encounter, but they cannot possibly do everything. We should stick to picking a niche and making our design fit that job well, rather than making a jack of all trades that fails at most.[/preaching]
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posted
So you ship's role is kinda a destroyer/Torpedo boat?
Starfleet would doubtlessly use some other (less threatening-sounding to the UT) designation though.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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The Defiant used quantum torpedos, as did the Jem'Hadar, I don't think issuing them to this gunboat would be considered overpowering or fanboyish, after all the Defiant got into all sorts of trouble just the same.
And you should have a pair of launchers in the stern as well, Axeman (even Voyager had that), maybe in that thin grey rectangle at the rearmost of the ship, like on the Excelsior upgrade.
Another advantage with using quantums is that the faint, blue glow of the muzzles would differ from the red of the impulse engines, in this case.
Vanity nitpick: If you won't go with quantums as main armament, you should at least use the bright white-yellow photon torpedo design used in the last season of Voyager, the red "rotating starfish" torps feel so first-season-TNG.
-------------------- "I'm nigh-invulnerable when I'm blasting!" Mel Gibson, X-Men
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
The "Excelsior upgrade" has the same aft torp system as the regular version- they look disturbingly like tailpipes.
Mabye this ship has the "pop up" launchers facing aft like the "E"?
The Defiant was the "hero ship" of the series- it makes sense that it would be VERY tough (still got blowed-up good though)- most ships even at the war's height were still using photons.
....I really cant recall any other ships besides Defiant, Lakota and Enterprise E having them at all.
...yeah, the lazy writers on Voyager probably added them into the ship with unlimited torpedos and shuttlecraft, but fuck those bozos anyhow.
P.S.- I dont think the Jemmies used Q-Torps- just something equivalent.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I have that one on DVD- it was a Karemma torpedo with a giant quartz doo-dah that they pulled out. That torpedo salesman was a dead ringer for Zephram Cochrane....
As to torpedo hardpoints: as they're supposed to be guided, the actual positioning of the hardpoint is minimal. If someone gets close enough where it would matter, the torpedo's detonation would blow your own ship up as well as theirs.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I agree, these things are guided weapons that we've seen swing all over the sky and even backwards, so I think placement is not the issue a lot of people seem to think it is. I cant believe there'd be space for rearward launchers on this thing either, I did toy with the idea of recessed ones on the rear underside but couldn't bring myself to do it in the end.
As for designations, I wouldn't have thought they'd have given a toss what anyone called them after all the wars they've had to fight recently. I suppose they could call them system patrol or survey craft, they have the sensors and range for it, but you know you're going to get a facefull oftorpedos if you piss them off whatever it's called.
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Registered: Jun 2003
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