posted
I'm not so happy with this design, since I think it reflects a fallacious idea about how technology develops. (I could be wrong, since I'm not in the designer's head). it seems to suggest that the primary hull disc and spindle-shaped secondary hulls separated after being present as visually recognizable structures within a single hull. That's working backwards from the endpoints rather than working forward from more basic strucutres. It would make more sense to me if this ship came after a ship that had separate primary and secondary hulls.
Starting at 1000 is certainly better than starting at 01.
-------------------- When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
Registered: Oct 1999
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I think he did an adequate job of creating it. I think it's more suited to be NX-1600, say. But hatever else... *sigh* I won't mince words, I think the guy's a dink. He has a pretty pitiful grasp of Trek history to be allowed to have his creation etched in... well... lots and lots of sheets of paper. In a pieceo f official merchandise.
I am of the belief that when you're creating a new ship design, you should do as much friggin' homework as you possibly can. This, to me, is pretty, but it's still a continuity hairball.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Wasn't the Grissom a 3-digit starship registry?
Maybe by first ship with warp speed you could say the first Entirely Federation Ship (with warp speed) i.e. the first joint effort.
P.S. Is this same discussion going on over at Trek BBS??!??? Do people post the topic here AND there? Why couldn't that Meni guy come and post here? Do people from there come here for ideas for topics then post them there to get a bigger audience?
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
I guess my post disappeared betwen my browser and the server, so let's try again.
Masao: Remember, we haven't seen every ship, obviously, sinc ewe keep seeing new designs like these (and invent out own). It's entirely possible ther ewas an Ent-styled dual hull design similar to the Connie class, not to mention we know of the butt-ugly Daedalus class.
And since we know we have a mess of information regarding what ships were first to do what for who as far as canon goes, and TAS isn't canon anyway, one could easily speculate this design is a TOS era ship, a 1701 contemporary or near-term predecessor. From the styling, I prefer to think that anyway. Especially with the K-x (claimed K-2) starbase in the background.
I agree saying this came before a dual hull design is silly, because as you said, this looks plainly like a Connie inspired design, even from a 23rd century engineer standpoint.
I really really think we need a reboot of what's considered canon anyway. Get a really good author to go over every episode and movie, and write out a timeline. If it contradicts with something we hear on screen (which a lot of stuff will contradict other stuff said onscreen anyway) then that person was mistaken. It's not like every single person in the future will perfectly know history.
Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Maybe by first ship with warp speed you could say the first Entirely Federation Ship (with warp speed) i.e. the first joint effort.
P.S. Is this same discussion going on over at Trek BBS??!??? Do people post the topic here AND there? Why couldn't that Meni guy come and post here? Do people from there come here for ideas for topics then post them there to get a bigger audience?
The thread had been going on for a while on Trek BBS when one of the posters emailed Meni. I'd hazard a guess that he didn't post her because he doesn't know here exists.
As for the warp issue. I think in the TAS episode it was supposed to be the first warp vessel, but this version of the Bonaventure was designed by someone taking Enterprise and FC into account, so I took it to mean that like you say, this is the first Federation Starfleet warp vessel.
posted
I'm not a registration fanatic, but from a mildly interested 3rd party, I don't think starting Feddy registration at 1000 is as much a problem as people might think. Even if Grissom does have a lower registry it could be named for a historical ship ala Enterprise. I don't love this ship (think it's kind of ugly and the weird telepod accident thing irks), but there have been worse designs. For those who (like me) don't visit the Trek board, there is a dorsal ortho view over there. It seems to me like he'd also have the port projection detailed, but what do I know?
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
The TAS Bonaventure was an ugly little spud. And Scotty's line was that it was "the first vessel with a warp drive installed". Post-First Contact apologists have fudged things by saying that it was a sublight ship originally that had warp drive installed after it was already in service. Kludgy, but it kinda works.
Registries... Grissom was NCC-638. But we also know of the Revere ar NCC-595. That's the lowest canon registry I think we've ever had. The lowest inferred canon registry is NX-01, judging by the utter lack of confusion from the Voyager crew over Dauntless' NX-01-A. Which also implies that NX-01 was named Dauntless...
See, this is why I like to think the events in First Contact spun off another Mirror universe. One where they named their NX-01 Enterprise.
Plus, if it's a non-serving prototype, it should still be 'NX', not 'NCC'.
jesus X? I've been working on just such a timeline for a few years now. Unfortunately, I know it's not going to be well-received by canon nazis.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Peregrinus: I can imagine. I should try my hand at one too, just for fun. I've been trying to come up wiht a nice Trek hobby-project for a while other than my handmade cargo-vessel (I'll post about that some other time, it's still only half done frame wise), and this could be it. As for the canon-nazis, it'll give them something else to argue about.
When people pick apart scripts and screenshots for minutes and millimeters it drives me bonkers. Like the Wolf 359/BoBW screenshot autopsies, or ship-scale comparisons. It can be fun, but when we start saying every little detail is canon when half the time it's put on screen as it for only 3 reasons (budget, time, and dramatic effect) none of which are accuracy, it gets a bit ridiculous.
The Ex Astris Scientia article on the Defiant's true size is much more tolerable for me because they depend less on what's on-screen and more on general logic. I think we could all use that a little more when dealing with trek, mainly because it is fiction, not a real future history. Scotty said the Binaventure was the first warp ship. ST:FC said otherwise. So that's two canon references in direct conflict. A reasonable retcon is in order. Either he was wrong/misspoke, or he meant something else than our literal interpretation. Example: Most people would say Henry Ford (or just Ford) invented the automobile, but that's incredibly innacurate. He didn't even invent the assembly line. He DID however improve the assembly line, apply it to automibiles, and thus create the modern auto industry. But he didnt' create either, he just made them both better. But now a hundred years later many people think otherwise. So, it's easy to believe Scotty wasn't 100% accurate with his words. Knowing what a technosnob he was, maybe he didn't consider the relatively antiquated Archer Warp Core to be all that good, and was referring to some other version.
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Both from what I gather. Meni's a diminutive form of Aristomenis Tsirbas's name, and became the name of his company. The company is Meni and his manager, basically.
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Well, I've been infamous in certain circles, if that counts...
Besides, think of Flare as a proving ground for the rest of the internet: if you can make it here you can survive anywhere.
Radiation and biohazard suits not included. If symptoms such as nausea, hysteria or agonizing over spaceships shown once in a cartoon from twenty-five years ago occur, consult a mortician. -------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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"Post-First Contact apologists have fudged things by saying that it was a sublight ship originally that had warp drive installed after it was already in service."
Well, that would be the Phoenix, though, wouldn't it? It was already a perfectly functional rocket, then it had a warp drive put in.
Registered: Mar 1999
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