quote:Mind you, I'd caution against oversimplifying your perception of some of these ships based on the registry alone. I remember back in the old ASDB days we had very lengthy discussions about just this sort of thing.
Let me make it clear that this project is just my own personal take on how these ships might look (and registries are only one factor). I'm not trying to argue that this is anything close to definitive. I've always had nothing but respect for the work that the ASDB did way back when, and also a respect for your dislike of kitbashes.
Now with that being said, I've just found that most hero ships (i.e. Constitution, Excelsior, Galaxy, etc.) seem to have many variants. I also consider the Enterprise-C (and the Ambassador class in general) to be a hero ship as well; if it weren't, why name one of the class "Enterprise?" And yet...no variants. Not only that, but there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of them around for some reason. And interestingly enough there are several other conjectural classes with nearly the same registries, that only have one or two ships operational as well. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. But I'm definitely in the "maybe" category.
P.S. While this ship discussion is all fine and good (and I'm not suggesting that it stop), my original OP was to find if anyone could help me in designing some Ambassador variants. Just a reminder...
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Yes but "putting the cart before the horse" covers every Trek design ever (except the Galaxy, which Probert really went nuts on). Hoestly I have tons of Jeffries sketches trying to find a cool look- most of which were terrible and discarded.
Which is perfectly fine, considering at the time there was little to no concept of how things worked on a starship. In the absence of engineering info, it's more than cool to just roll with shape and proportion.
Rev's point is that since we now have engineering info . . . knowledge of plasma conduits and warp cores and so on . . . that designs just don't feel right if they don't abide by the normal rules.
It's not that your saucer-nacelle connection is wrong . . . it's just that it's more John Eaves and less Rick Sternbach, and I gather that Rev's a more Sternbach kinda guy.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000: [QUOTE]It's not that your saucer-nacelle connection is wrong . . . it's just that it's more John Eaves and less Rick Sternbach, and I gather that Rev's a more Sternbach kinda guy.
And yet...Sternbach designed this as the USS Pegasus. Maybe he was not feeling himself that day.
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Originally, it WAS one of the W359 kitbashes! It wasn't until later that they scratch built a proper filming miniature and refined the basic configuration into a workable design.
Well, they sure could have reused Galaxy parts for it, but went and made custom everything instead- only the nacelles were straight Galaxy re-use. Then they blew it with the poorly-thought out Southerland configuration, whicj looks cool because they made a more detailed pod but lobbing torpedos right over the bridge and blocking the main shuttlebay really bother me.
Later still, some genius makes a CG Nebula from Galaxy parts and really fucks the design by kitbashing it with all the Galaxy's windows and, presumably, a Galaxy secondary hull.
At that point, the design becomes pointless.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I'd hardly say it "blocks" the shuttlebay. That facility is bloody HUGE and it'd be no trouble for even a fairly large shuttle craft to vector in around the central pylon.
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: I'd hardly say it "blocks" the shuttlebay. That facility is bloody HUGE and it'd be no trouble for even a fairly large shuttle craft to vector in around the central pylon.
It's a very hard right turn from the shuttlebay to avoid that pylon- every shuttle launch we've seen has involved the very sensible move to get clear of the ship as soon as is possible. Add to that the chances of a shuttle coming in hard or pilot error...made more likely in a combat situation (which, I'd guess STarfleet was not looking at when the Nebbie was envisioned).
eh... It's just not as good a setup as the "field goal" design of the Phoinex configuration.
A bettwr design would be to have a large hangar located at the top of the pod itself- giving complete clearance to departing shuttles and fighters.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Teh PW
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posted
what about twin hangers? or set the twin hangers at 150 & 210 degree angles? simply put, if they bothered or even cared, when they 'invisioned' the Nebby, the hanger(s) would have been placed someplace else. I mean, hell, doesnt the saucer separate from the secondary hull? it doesnt even have impulse engines truely visiable, LOLz
posted
Although I can certainly agree that the Phoenix has a more optimal flight pattern, I think you're exaggerating the problem with the Sutherland a bit. After all, it would only require a 10-degree offset to avoid the pylon during takeoff or landing. That leaves plenty of maneuvering room with such a wide shuttlebay, considering the size of the shuttlebay. (For reference, you can make out the yellow lettering at the bottom of that picture; I'd guess that the shot shows about 2/3 of the width of the bay.)
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
That picture is hardly a good representation of the shuttlebay but okay- it's workable, if not exactly optimal, to depart the bay at a 10 degree slant- entering the same way though...tricky. Pilots would want the K.I.S.S. method, not the "looks cool" one. Just giving he secondary hull (now pointlessly seperated from the pylons) it's "tail" back (like on the Melborume kitbash) would allow the Southerland's pod o sit farther back and offer far better shuttlebay clearance.
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
^That's even assuming a horizontal flight path. These are after all space craft and there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to approach from almost any angle. Plus, let's be honest, how often have we ever seen more than one shuttle coming or going at an one time?
Teh PW
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posted
Nu Trek proved if you needed to get the fuck outta there quick you could do it. Now, considering how fast shit happens during a warp core breach, you think anyone would be able to get to the shuttles quick enough?
posted
Ha! So right- we've seen core breachs that allowed for plenty of evac time, and others that just pop like a baloon.
Hmm...I bet they could computer-launch a large shuttle programmed to beam off-duty personell into it even as it clears the ship and makes for safety at high impulse speed.
Kinda an enforced evacuation. Launch five or six such craft and you could rapidly evac a couple of hundred people (colonists, civillians, sickbay, etc.).
At least get the cute women to safety!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000: [qb] [QUOTE]It's not that your saucer-nacelle connection is wrong . . . it's just that it's more John Eaves and less Rick Sternbach, and I gather that Rev's a more Sternbach kinda guy.
And yet...Sternbach designed this as the USS Pegasus. Maybe he was not feeling himself that day.
Oh, now if it was a preliminary idea for the Pegasus that's very different, because then you can have the engineering hull as the test section for the "experimental engine" that the ship had on board, while keeping a Mirandized Ambassador saucer and nacelle setup as the main ship.
So yeah, it still makes little sense as a proper ship of the line, but as a hacked-together testbed ship it's all good.
Registered: Nov 2001
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