posted
Hi Guys I just got the DVD box of the fox show Firefly and I find it very out standing show compared to other sci-fi shows. What I what too now is why on earth was this show was canceled and what was fox thinking!!!!!
Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Intelligent shows almost always get cancelled. Also, FOOTBALL!! AAARRRGGH!!!
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
Actually, I'd like to know - what constitutes an "intelligent" show? And what makes a show unintelligent? Why does prevailing wisdom have Firefly as an example of the former, and Voyager and Enterprise as the latter? Was, say, Andromeda ever considered intelligent? For that matter, is CSI intelligent - and if so, is it more so than its spinoffs that are much more cartoony - seem less realistic, if a show with forensic scientists doubling as detectives is at all realistic?
I'm in an adversarial mood, and I'm trying to stimulate discussion. So I'm take issue with the notion that Firefly was cancelled for being too intelligent TV.
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
By "intelligent," I mean well-written, well-acted, well-thought out in direction & in premise. I mean that it is unique in aspect & execution, that it is stimulating mentally as well as being entertaining. It makes you interested.
Sitcoms (Cosby Show & a few others aside) are not intelligent. So-called "reality" shows are not intelligent. Contest shows such as American Idol or Project Runway are not intelligent. Much drama is not intelligent, & some formerly intelligent shows have become less intelligent over the years. (Example: when you know who the killer is within the first 3 mintues on Law & Order)
This isn't just a television thing. Over here, everyone I know is raving about Snakes On A Plane; half the people I speak to online went to a showing on opening night yesterday. They can't understand why I turn away in disgust at the mere idea. Instead, last night I watched a bunch of movies from the library the other night; one of them was this little film I'd read & heard about called Saving Face by Alice Wu. It's about a Chinese woman in NYC, a doctor, whose 48-year-old mother is pregnant & gets kicked out of the house by the grandfather. so the mother stays with the daugther who's not happy because she can't live her life...a life which is beginning to include a relationship with her boss's daughter. It was...really well writtten & shot & the acting was superb & I loved how they flowed seamlessly line-to-line between Chinese & English & it was just..yeah. It was intelligent. It didn't insult mine.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
Just an aside: Andromeda COULD have been intelligent, except for its lousy budget, its lousy casting, and the lousy studio executives. (I mean, did you ever read the "All Systems University" website before it got taken down? That was published pretty much in its entirety before the show even premiered. That indicated, to me, a great deal of planning and foresight for the show. Sadly, Robert Hewitt Wolfe didn't plan for Kevin Sorbo.)
Firefly is, to me, the epitome of intelligent science fiction because it's not intent on presenting completely ridiculous situations and amazing explosions and crazy technobabble just for the sake of the plot. Sure, even later Trek (VGR and ENT) had its moments, but the parts didn't add up to anything greater. Firefly was first and foremost a character drama, with realistic, understandable people whom you can both love and hate (and sometimes both at the same time!). One of the things that struck a chord with me was that some of the antagonists � like the Alliance warship captain in "Bushwhacked", the sheriff from "The Train Job", or even Badger, despite his awful attitude � weren't antagonists because they were evil, but because they were just doing their job (or looking out for their own interests), and their job was running against the interests of our crew.
Sure, it wasn't perfect. I kinda found the whole Mal/Inara storyline rather tiresome after a while. (It was so childish!) And in retrospect, some of the Chinese cursing was a little overdone. But it's a whole heck of a lot better than many other shows out there.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
Lousy budget is not really an excuse for lack of intelligence.
OK, I can see how by not having a good budget you can't pay for good writers, but besides that...
Look at Dr. Who and Blake's 7 (I've never seen Red Dwarf, so can't say). Both these shows have very intelligent stories and we all know the BBC skimped on the budget dept.
Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
I liked Firefly, agreeing that the Mal/Inara thing got to be way over done. The movie was something of a let down, but then again, the suits did the same thing to FarScape too. I liked FarScape too, but the Scorpius thing got to equal Mal/Inara.
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
Intelligent shows involve thought. They require the writers to think, forming coherent storylines and believable characters. They require the characters to think, because smart characters are much more fun to watch than dumb ones. And they require the audience to think, if only to keep up with the plotline. Early Earth: Final Conflict, I would watch because I liked keeping up with the plotlines. It made me think, and it made me try to figure out what was going on. Later Earth: Final Conflict I'd watch because... I did. I just turned my brain off when it was on.
So intelligent shows involve the writers being intelligent enough to create intelligent characters and assume that the audience is smart enough to understand complexities. Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
And yet 'reality' tv is still big, moronic wrestling is on scifi, and there is a SoapOpera channel.
This makes me wonder about your last paragraph.
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
Intelligent people who enjoy intelligent television can still enjoy less intelligent shows. Nobody enjoys a smart show more than I, but I think "So You Think You Can Dance" is great fun, and "Seinfeld" can be entertaining on occasion too. It's entirely possible to have a smart sitcom, too. Frasier, for example, very much assumes that its audience will understand its references. Like Futurama, but snooty.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
See, there is a perfect example of how it just means what you like, because Seinfeld is whip-smart, or at least it is in my opinion. But what exactly do I mean by that, beyond that I think it is very funny and intricately plotted?
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
Probably not too "intelligent"...it is, afterall, first and foremost a sitcom set in space. Not to say it doesn't have a few clever moments, but it was never intended to be serious science fiction...and by the end it had fallen into being formulaic (there always had to be one Space Corps Directive joke every episode, for example).
The trouble with a lot of sci fi these days is that it just insults your intelligence...treats you as if you can't cope with anything more than a bit of T&A and a few fancy explosions, and when it does try to present something intelligent it does it so badly it comes out even worse than their usual crap. It just strikes that so many producers just don't know how to present something that is going to be stimulating, they only know how to churn out generic rubbish.
Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
posted
Seinfeld's characters aren't intelligent, nor does it require the audience to think. So by the definition I gave, it's not an intelligent show. I'll give you smartly-written, though.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
Da_bang80
A few sectors short of an Empire
Member # 528
posted
I didn't get soo see much of Firefly since it wasn't on space at a good time for me. I saw about half the movie and I thought it was pretty good.
Farscape was awesome. Andromeda, I thought it was kind of lame.
Reality TV sucks the big one. Reality sucks as it is, why would we want to watch it on TV?
A good show I reccomend is House M.D. I've never realyl been into medical dramas but the characters are well thought out and House is fuckin hilarious. Kinda reminds me of some of you guys.
-------------------- Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I cannot accept. And the wisdom to hide the bodies of all the people I had to kill today because they pissed me off.
Printer-friendly view of this topic
