quote:Maybe the Master was typical of timelords and the Doctor was NOT the norm!?! Any evidence to suggest this?
Considering that Borusa called him something to the effect of the most vile, despicable person in existence, I'd say not. But then again, look who's talking...
quote:What was his purpose? Was it just to thwart the Doctor at every turn? That'll turn out to be a pretty one dimensional character if that is the case.
That's what I said before when I said that I don't want John Simm to be nothing more than Snively Whiplash.
quote:What was the Master's relationship with the Daleks?
Like everyone else, he just used them to suit his own purposes, hence the "trial" at the beginning of "The Enemy Within." Of course, why the Daleks didn't put the Doctor on "trial" still eludes me.
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Regarding Sir Derek Jacobi's previous Master experience, I wouldn't read TOO much into it. He's an extremely well-regarded actor, and having him as ANYTHING in Who is bound to be popular in the UK. I mean, did anyone imagine or think that Colin Baker's turn as Commander Maxil would result in his casting as the sixth Doctor? Would David Tennant's minor role in "Shalka" clued people in to his ending up as the tenth?
Further, I trust the Who staff to come up with a proper story and arc for the new Master, as I'm sure he'll end up being THE major villain for the fourth series. Both Ainley and Delgo had smooth, motivated roles as the Master, and despite the fact that Eric Roberts killed the character, I'm sure the Master will be digested properly this time around. John Simm is terrific in "Life On Mars", and with a proper dark hair dye and goatee I'm sure he'll make a great Master too.
"Maybe the Master was typical of timelords and the Doctor was NOT the norm!?! Any evidence to suggest this?"
They're both pretty abnormal for Time Lords. Your typical Time Lord just spends his time being sedentary on Gallifrey, whiling away the centuries doing nothing.
The Doctor and the Master are both, by Gallifreyan standards, a couple of weirdos, due to their desire to go out into the universe. The difference, of course, is that the Doctor does it out of curiosity, and the Master does it out of lust for power.
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quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: I mean, did anyone imagine or think that Colin Baker's turn as Commander Maxil would result in his casting as the sixth Doctor? Would David Tennant's minor role in "Shalka" clued people in to his ending up as the tenth?
Well no, of course not - I'm not reading anything into this other than a bit of speculation on my part, but as I said the new series does seem to be borrowing elements from the "expanded universe" stuff (for want of a better term) and putting them to use in the TV show, which makes it a vague possibility at least.
I'm not saying that Jacobi's previous role as the Master makes him a dead cert, but just that if they're using plot elements, characters, names etc from other stories in the TV show it makes it a possibility that they might use Jacobi in a role he has played before. And if they're going to do a pre/post regeneration Master, then both actors mentioned would be good choices.
Have to say I agree on John Simm - I think he will be good in the role and I think the production team will come up with a good story angle on the Master and his relationship with the Doctor. Of course if it does turn out to be the Master the question is this - why couldn't the Doctor sense that other Time Lords were out there?
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Registered: Nov 2004
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I remember reading that there was a possibility of the Master being related to the Doctor, perhaps being the Doctor's brother. However, the idea was eventually dropped.
Registered: Feb 2005
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There was also a story planned at one point that would have seen the Master sacrifice his life to save the Doctor's - it was meant to be the final 3rd Doctor story and the last appearance of Roger Delgado's Master. Unfortunately before it got close to being put into production Delgado was killed in a car crash (and, I assume, didn't regenerate) so they wrapped up Pertwee's era with "Planet of the Spiders" instead.
Wasn't the plan for the Master/Doctor brother thing in the initial drafts of the McGann movie? I think I remember reading something about how Borusa was revealed to be the Doctor's father and his spirit inhabited the TARDIS, though my memory might be playing tricks on me...if not, I'm glad that little gem never went beyond the planning stages, anyway.
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Wasn't there also something about the Doctor being one of the 'special' Timelords... Mentioned in the Five Doctors - I remember the name Rassilon... anyway I remember reading a long time ago that the Seventh Doctor's stories were peppered with hints about him being something even greater still.
AND, If all the Timelords died in the Time War... then does that mean they were all erased from history?
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Ahh, the Cartel Masterplan - they planned to hint that the Doctor was one of the original three founders of Time Lord society - Rassilon (who came up with Time Travel), Omega (who fashioned the eye of harmony out of a star to power Gallifreyan time travel devices) and The Other (who kept the Rassilon/Omega alliance together). The Doctor was meant to have been The Other, but it never really came to anything what with the series ending and all. The books took it further, but as far as TV went all we got was initial hints (such as the one in "Remembrance of the Daleks" where the Doctor hints he was present when Omega was working on his stellar manipulator).
Rassilon was mentioned - and even appeared - in the Five Doctors, as a projection before turning Borusa into an early version of the paving slab girl from "Love and Monsters".
I don't think it means they would be erased from history if they died - I always got the impression Gallifrey was in some way outside of normal space-time anyway.
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I don't think Gallifrey was completely erased from history since that would drastically alter the Doctor's past. I would think that the planet still exists in time prior to the war's end but that the Doctor chooses not to go there.
Registered: Feb 2005
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Well, it's one of the bigger laws of time travel that you shouldn't directly interfere in your own personal timeline. If/when you do, giant monsters come around and eat everyone.
Fandom generally accepts that the Time War happened at the end of the 8th Doctor's incarnation, included seveal major battles involving fleets of warships throughout time, and that in general his regeneration into the 9th Doctor was one result of the War.
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: I don't think Gallifrey was completely erased from history since that would drastically alter the Doctor's past.
Very drastically! If Gallifrey never existed, neither would the Doctor's parents...very confusing situation where you exist but your parents didn't. No wonder he's eccentric and lives in a telephone!
Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: I would think that the planet still exists in time prior to the war's end but that the Doctor chooses not to go there.
I don't think it's a case of choice - I remember one of the books saying that travelling into Gallifrey's past was forbidden because the time traveller might inadvertantly alter Gallifrey's future. Fits in with the generally conservative nature of their society, I suppose. The TARDIS might be locked out of any co-ordinates that would take it to Gallifrey's relative past.
While there has never been any real confirmation of the Time War's duration, RTD has commented on the backstory and wrote a bit about it in one of the annuals - I think in one of the "Doctor Who Confidential" episodes he even went so far as to say that the Time Lords started the war with a pre-emptive strike against the Daleks, featured in "Genesis of the Daleks" - which places it back in the 4th Doctor's era.
I have to admit I always assumed the Doctor's line in "Dalek" about watching the Dalek fleet burn referred to his actions in "Remembrance of the Daleks" where he detonated Skaro's star - which was in the 7th Doctor era. And of course there is the Doctor's line at the start of "Rose" where he seems to check out his new face for the first time, which would put it not long after his regeneration and the (presumed) end of the Time War.
Of course we might be chasing our tails here looking for info on the time war - is there an answer to such a question as when did two time travelling powers fight a war?
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Not really. Davies wrote a brief history of the Time War, or at least the end of it, which barely mentioned the Doctor at all. From Wikipedia:
The Doctor Who Annual 2006, published by Panini in August 2005, contains an article entitled Meet the Doctor by Russell T. Davies, which provides some additional background information on the Time War as seen in the television series, also mentioning in passing events depicted in the novels, audios and comic strips. Although the canonicity of such material is debatable, the fact that Davies is the chief writer and executive producer of the television series may add some weight to the information given. Whether or not any of the material will be used as part of the television series is also unclear.
The article describes the Time Lord policy of non-intervention, but states that on a "higher level", they protected the time vortex and kept the peace. It further claims that two previous "Time Wars" had been fought: the first a skirmish between the Halldons (a race mentioned in the Terry Nation story We are the Daleks from the Radio Times 10th Anniversary Special, 1973) and the Eternals (Enlightenment). The second was the brutal slaughter of the Omnicraven Uprising, with the Time Lords intervening on both occasions to settle matters.
The conflict between the Daleks and the Time Lords is described as "the Great (and final) Time War". Initial clashes included the Dalek attempt to infiltrate the High Council of the Time Lords with duplicates (Resurrection of the Daleks, 1984), and the open declaration of hostilities by one of the Dalek Puppet Emperors; although the Daleks claimed that these were merely in retaliation for the Time Lords' sending of the Doctor back in time to change Dalek history in Genesis of the Daleks.
The article says that historical records are uncertain, but mentions two specific events in the lead-up to the war. The first was an attempted Dalek-Time Lord peace treaty initiated by President Romana under the Act of Master Restitution (a possible reference to the otherwise unexplained trial of the Master on Skaro at the beginning of the Doctor Who television movie, 1996). The second was the Etra Prime Incident (The Apocalypse Element), which some say "began the escalation of events." Weapons used by the Time Lords included Bowships, Black Hole Carriers and N-Forms (the last from Davies' 1996 New Adventures novel Damaged Goods) while the Daleks wielded "the full might of the Deathsmiths of Goth" (from the comic strip story Black Legacy by Alan Moore and David Lloyd, in Doctor Who Weekly #35-#38) and launched a massive fleet into the vortex.
The timelines of lesser races and planets shifted without the inhabitants of the worlds affected being aware of the changes in history, as they were a part of them (presumably including humans). "Higher Species" who were able to notice the changes included the Forest of Cheem, who were distraught at the bloodshed; the Nestene Consciousness, which lost all its planets and further mutated; the Greater Animus, which died; and the Eternals, who apparently fled this reality in despair, never to be seen again. The war lasted for years, and exactly how it ended was also not precisely known.
The article ends with a description of a monument to the Time War on a distant planet, upon which, under an image of a lone survivor walking away, the message "You are not alone" has been scratched, perhaps indicating that the Doctor was not the sole survivor of the conflict.
I don't think the destrution of Skaro by the Doctor in "Rememberance" was the ten million ships thing. He wasn't really "seeing" it happen, literally - he was staring at Davros' wrinkles at the time.
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