posted
Sure, but that quote is a critic trying to make a popcorn flick wih a recycled Chariots Of The Gods 1970's premise into Shakespere.
And no, I have not actually seen the movie- only watched an interview with Ridley Scott embarassing himself and all of humanity by giving credence to such flakery.
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posted
That quote was not meant to reflect the entire article, it was meant to indicate what kind of angle he takes in dissecting the movie: very detailed. Your cynical conjectures are not helping you in any way in understanding the movie or the style of the presentation.
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
The point is that a lot of these critics try and read insane depths into whatever they are writing about, seeing patterns in every scene that supposedly have some secret meaning that only they can tell us...
I recall reading some reviewer droning on about how the writers of NUBSG "obviously had the entire series planned before the first episode was shot"- which was total bullshit as they made it up as they went (like lost and plenty of others).
It's worse when someone reviews a classic like 2001, but any "legendary" director gets the fawning treatment- go back and read some of the glowing reviews for the laughably bad AI.
Anyway, I'll have to dig up the link where Scott talks about how "there's a ton of evidence that life was seeded on earth by ailens". I keep hoping taht was just to hype the movie and he's not a total flake.
[ June 17, 2012, 03:07 AM: Message edited by: Jason Abbadon ]
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Oh, so guilt by association, is it? First of all, this isn't a reviewer. He doesn't pass judgment on the movie, he doesn't use any phony grade-system or thumbs-ups. It's a guy who saw the movie and wanted to write about his thoughts on the scenes, and he's dead on in many of the cases, but you need to see the movie first, otherwise this is all academical.
I will say that this is the first sci-fi movie in years that actually managed to be confusing and engaging, not simply spoon-feeding easy answers and solutions like George Lucas would do. "How did Vader get his suit? Easy! He got the whole set in one moment, in the exact design he then wears for the next 25 years. Cape included. No incremental development here, like a Vader-ish helmet and metal chest-piece to, you know, just save his life for the time being."
I am itching to go back and watch Prometheus in the cinema again, but I have to wait two weeks until my broke-ass uni student friends get payday.
This all happened so fast, by the way, that I haven't even had time to process the actual ships, guys. Prometheus itself is a fucking work of art. I recently rewatched "Alien" (extended cut 1080p) with my nephew, had to educate him before we went to the cinema. I was astounded by the industrial beauty of the Nostromo. This was the first time I made the connection to scale, how frigging big Nostromo actually is. When you see Ash in the little viewport, waving to the rescue team on the ground. 350-400 meter ship?
The USCSS Prometheus borrows a lot of the design themes from Nostromo, but is slightly more manageable and light, due to being a science vessel and not a truck hauler. I was of two minds about the engine cowls doubling as landing gear, but the sheer VTOL-ness of it worked for me.
Unlike "Phantom Menace"'s ill-explained tech overlap compared to ANH, the sophistication of Prometheus (holograms, touchscreens), due to being a science vessel and Weyland Corp's flagship, worked for me. IMO they totally nailed the bridge/cockpit design similarities with the Nostromo, as well as the white/red hallways and hatching doors.
What to say about the alien craft? It was all I hoped it would be, and just being able to see it unbroken and in working condition, even doing a little engine-spurt speed jump when accelerating, was a real treat, a full 25 years after seeing "Alien".
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The shape of the alien ship was unmistakable. The moment Janek peeled back the layers of the scan and the shape appeared I knew we were dealing with the Space Jockeys. It had been a while since I saw Alien, so I didn't recognize the armour/biosuit right away. I had forgotten just how much bigger they were.
-------------------- I haul cardboard and cardboard accessories
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Fabrux: I had forgotten just how much bigger they were.
In fact, the one in Alien is even bigger than the ones we see in Prometheus. The plan was originally to further enlarge them digitally ala LOTR, but Scott ultimately decided not to.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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Yeah no shit. Fisticuffs would've been even more one-sided. But I would've liked it. A 4 meter tall demigod. With hands like the original space jockey, he could've easily done this.
Spoilers $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Even though I'm still nicely confused as to the whole new "circle-of-life" transpiring in Prometheus, I'm glad they went with the kind of impregnator they did in the ending, a regular little facehugger launching at an engineer probably would've gotten caught like a baseball in his fist and popped like a ripe tomato.
Registered: Aug 1999
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$$$$$$SPOILERS$$$$$$$ Yeah, the black goo was the silliest compound ever made since red matter. It apparently creates a whole medly of creatures in addition to disolving you like an alka seltzer tablet, when it doesn't turn you into a zombie of course. How could the jockeys ever have thought they could use such a chemical whitout hurting themselves. While I'm glad I saw it, it does sort of over complicate the original Alien (although it can now be argued the xenomorph isn't technically an alien) film, and somewhat ruin the jockeys for me. I found the original jockey to be a tragic figure, a poor shmoe who picked up an egg on some distant world as a souvenir and ended up with a zerg poppin out his chest and laying eggs in his ship's basement. Nah, he was just some dick trying to exterminate humanity. I didn't care for the exoskeleton being a spacesuit either. Also I did notice in that one room with big head, depictions of xenomorphs. So did the jockeys know about em, I mean they were running from something. $$$$$$$$End of Spoilers$$$$$$$$$
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I was actually happy and enticed to see the added sophistication of the Alien universe's "How Things Work, By Joe Kaufman". The other modern sequels went the other direction, needlessly simplifying and speeding shit up to the point of "Alien Vs Predator: Requiem", where one PredAlien could impregnate a person with 5-10 eggs that hatched within a few hours, turning the franchise into "Resident Evil".
If you want a little help in sorting the Prometheus-WhatGoesWhere out, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4 Here's a helpful guide. It won't be helpful to those that haven't seen the movie, as there are two objects in it that haven't existed in other Alien-movies.
Secondly, the causality of the chart might not be written in stone. The article I linked above reasons that the black goo acts differently on different subjects with different intent. I don't know what stock to put in it, but before the sequel is released it can't be disproved.
Registered: Aug 1999
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My interpretation is that the black goo actually *is* the xenomorph in its earliest, purest, unbonded state. It is a lifeform that takes on different progressions of development depending on what other lifeforms it comes into contact and reacts with, but ultimately converging toward a certain inherent design, with certain overriding characteristics that inevitably present themselves in the process.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Wasnt black goo the ailens from X-Files basic form? They even called it "purity".
CROSSOVER TIME!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
So I saw this on bootleg and, after laughing through it with friends the first time, decided to give it a second viewing because, hey, I did not like Blade Runner when I first saw it either.
Upon second viewing, I still thought it was awful- for many many reasons-
First, it suffers the bane of all prequels- it does not work with the later movies. At all. I mean...so much is wrong there- where is the pyramid(s) in thelater movies? Or the "many other ships"? You'd assume the colonists from Ailens would've noticed that- I mean, they did not just stick an entire bazilion dollar terraforming colony there without a basic surevey, right?. The crashed spaceship was driving distance from the colony after all, but I'm guessing Scott could care less about the movies after Alien.
Then there's the massive scale changes to the set where the Navigator/"space jockey" was found- in Alien, Ridley Scott wanted a bigger set than the budget allowed so he had three miniature spacesuits made up and put his children in them for the initial approach to the Jockey (seated pilot engineer) so everthing would be 2-3 times larger. In this movie, they just discarded the idea, making the set 1/4 the scale...which is odd considerig they had the budget and effects to do anything they wanted.
Then there's stuff like the second sarcogaphus with another Engineer in stasis- never mentioned again or seen in later movies, and of course, those props are not in Alien at all.
And then there's the terrible junk science- like the abortion alien somehow gaining enough mass to fill that entire chamber- from what exactly? It grew super huge super fast on a steady diet of nothing. Maybe it was paper thin and filled with air.
And in the future it seems all pretense at professionalism or scientifc method has been tossed out the airlock- not to mention any shred of common sense when dealing with contanimation. The main scientist (whom I think of as "dumbass") starts right off by endangering everyone by removing his helmet- sure the sensors detected nothing bad...but why would they? If there was alien pathogens or viruses, there woulud be no baseline to compare against. And the bozo gets shitfaced after returning to the ship- because nothing is smarter than getting hammered on the ship with no leadership, where two of the eight "scientists" just told him they quit, the "Captain" abandons his post and the two losers stranded in the spooky alien pyramid- for some nookie...the other two bridge crew must have been filming it or something as they're no where to be seen. But hey, later on they happily sacrifice their lives for the captain- despite there being zero shown to establish any loyalty to him..
The scene where the mian scientist performs surgery on herself was so Ed Wood bad that me, my roomate and our dates all laughed- the part with the grabber taking the abortion/alien out made us all howl with laughter! It's exactly like the grabber novelty machine, only with a slimey pissed off squid instead of a stuffed toy....then she gets STAPLED up and is up and running around?!? Noooooooooo waaaaaay innnnn heeeelllll. She was held together with staples and fear, but she was opened up at the upper abdomen- you cant even stand up if that area is damaged, yet she's moving and grooving into her Spiderman(!) wet suit in minutes.
And, of course, no sci-fi monster movie would be complete without a flamethrower...having one on a spaceship is about the dumbest thing ever....except for the baby grand piano. Nothing beats that. In an escape pod that thing would be a 500 lb flying object in the cabin.
Possibly worst of all is the utter and complete rip off of the X-Files for the alien black goo- Ripoff checklist: Black goo is alien's purest form, moves by itself. Check Humans are the result of alien black goo? Check. Black goo when ingested causes massive changes and or unkillability? Check. Aliens plan on wiping out humand for....well, just because. Check.
And David the incredibly advanced android can not only read the language of the Engineers but he can somefuckinghow SPEAK AND PRONOUNCE THE LANGUAGE!!! No...just..hell no. And of course, since no one is in charge, no one demands he translate all that writing for everyone else..it's like a D&D party where everyone is trying to out-screw over the others.
Lastly, and it's not generally known, Dan Obannon, when he wrote the original Alien, wanted to make the men in the audience squirm on a psychological level so he filled the script with all sorts of oral rape, bloody births, etc and Scott and Geiger took it further with the vaginal openings all over the ship and the vaguely phallic look of the ship as it sticks up in to the sky. In this movie Scott has abandoned any pretense at subtelty and gone for the full hentai approach- tenticles shaped like penises shooting down guy's throats? Give me a break, Ridley.
If the budget was not so huge and you took Scott's name off it, it would be a Scyfi movie of the week- Sharktopus 2: the Origin.
After discussing this at length at the traditional pre-internet forum for such things, a diner, the consensus is that what was most lacking from the movie was characters you can give a shit about and any scary or suprising moments whatsoever. While the original Scott epic will be forever creepy and suspenseful, this was...it was bad. Real bad.
quote:Originally posted by Nim: If you want a little help in sorting the Prometheus-WhatGoesWhere out, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4 Here's a helpful guide.
Regarding this chart, it does not explain a few glaring plot holes- like why the black-goo containers turned into eggs with facehuggers inside them or where the laser tripwire John Hurt's character falls through comes from.
My bootleg ends where the credits start- is there some extra super-extra-extended scene showing the Engineer going back, sitting in the navigation chair and the chestburster pops out of him, lays a bunch of eggs, cleans up the frothing containers, sets the laser tripwire and the distres beacon, hides the human bodies scattered about, buries the crashed escape pod (with it's fucking piano) and then...er...hides out on the other Engineer ship we see female scientist and her pet severed head taking off to go find the engineer's planet of origin to...um...get killed there by them?
Man, they should have made a comic book miniseries to explain the plot holes like was done for Star Trek.
All abject disapointment aside, Michael Fassbender is excellent- truly evil while still being somehow hypnotic in his portrayal. He gets top grades in a class full of failures.
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posted
I agree with and share many of your criticisms about the film, but I would point out one thing: it doesn't take place on the same moon of Zeta Reticuli as Alien and neither of the ships we see are the one from Alien. The film takes place on LV-223 and Alien takes place on LV-426. But the movie went way over the top with the "RECOGNIZE THIS FROM ALIEN" moments so I don't blame you for not realizing that.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
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quote:I mean...so much is wrong there- where is the pyramid(s) in thelater movies? Or the "many other ships"? You'd assume the colonists from Ailens would've noticed that- I mean, they did not just stick an entire bazilion dollar terraforming colony there without a basic surevey, right? The crashed spaceship was driving distance from the colony after all, but I'm guessing Scott could care less about the movies after Alien.
The planet in Alien/Aliens is LV-426, the Prometheus-planet is LV-223, they repeat it many times. The climate is different, the topography is different. Both are located in the Zeta II Reticuli star system, but since star systems are bigger than solar systems, they could be very far apart.
quote:Then there's stuff like the second sarcogaphus with another Engineer in stasis- never mentioned again or seen in later movies, and of course, those props are not in Alien at all.
Again, different planet, different ship.
quote:Possibly worst of all is the utter and complete rip off of the X-Files for the alien black goo
Yeah the X-files didn't invent that, it's a trope along with Men in Black, grey big-eyed aliens and shapeshifters. Furthermore, the stuff in the X-files is sentient and mindcontrolling, the Engineers in Prometheus use their liquid as a catalyst. Why it works differently in different situations is discussed in the article I linked before.
quote: And then there's the terrible junk science- like the abortion alien somehow gaining enough mass to fill that entire chamber- from what exactly? It grew super huge super fast on a steady diet of nothing. Maybe it was paper thin and filled with air.
Despite the fact that there are species on earth that live their lives without eating, just working with the sustenance present in their bodies at birth, growing quickly from birth has been an Alien staple since the first Alien-movie. None of the Xenomorphs eat, the reach adult size in one or two days and their anatomy is silicon-based! Any earth biology preconceptions can be left at the door.
quote:Regarding this chart, it does not explain a few glaring plot holes- like why the black-goo containers turned into eggs with facehuggers inside them or where the laser tripwire John Hurt's character falls through comes from.
The eggs and the cylinders are not the same objects. Alien queens lay eggs, the containers just stood in an antechamber. The eggs of "Alien" were laid in another ship's cavernous cargo hold or similar room. The biosensitive field covering the eggs wasn't a laser field, it was just created by lasers by the film crew, most likely it was a bioluminescent pheromone field or such, floating above ground due to being lighter than the gas surrounding the eggs. Lots of animals on earth create perimeter sensors in their habitat, allowing them to notice a change in air pressure or scent and attack the unlucky stranger.
quote:In this movie Scott has abandoned any pretense at subtelty and gone for the full hentai approach- tenticles shaped like penises shooting down guy's throats? Give me a break, Ridley.
That's been in the franchise ever since the first facehugger (Kane got dick in his throat too, Ash stares at the sonogram of it), and famously by James Cameron in Aliens. Anyway, "give me a break"? Are your sensitivities suddenly offended by sci-fi gore? My theater cheered at that scene, finally some crowd-pleasing, old-fashioned sci-fi shock stuff, like in "The Blob". You don't put a battle tank/whaling harpoon/tentacle monster in a room in a movie unless you mean to use it, and they delivered.
The new "Total Recall" remake with Colin Farrell is nice and PG-13 now, director Len Wiseman copping out from (and diluting) the Verhoeven-legacy at every turn. Guaranteed to offend no one.
The choice of actors was poor for the supporting cast in "Prometheus", and Charlize Theron shouldn't even have been there, she just hogged the camera and chewed scenery, likewise they could've done more with showing engineer culture or showed other species that came looking and failed, but I hope they make a sequel that delves more into that. I liked Fassbender, but he took most of his cues from Ian Hurt and Lance Henriksen, especially after his "accident". The synthesized, hollow voice was almost a perfect imitation of Ash's "You have my sympathy"-speech.
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Funny, I thought it did take place on the same world as Alien, what with the crashed space jockey ship looking how it did in Alien. And Jason, in the secret super ending, a full grown Alien xenomorph ends up coming out of the dead space jockey's body. It looks a little different from how it appears in the later films, but its still recognizable as the good ol' Alien from the Sigourney Weaver films.
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