posted
The death of Maul, the commissioning of the Clone Army, and Palpatines allegiance with Tyrannus, appear to have started all at about the same time. "10 years ago" is referred to throughout the movie. We don't know exactly when though...some things could've happened before Ep 1 or slightly after.
Palaptine has things set up so that, no matter what happens, he wins. He had trained Maul as his apprentice, but who's to say he didn't have other powerful people that he was working with. Tyrannus was a Jedi at one point, but left. We don't know exactly when he left or whether he was working with Sidious before he left.
Given the implication that it was Tyrannus who erased the reference to Kamino from the Jedi files (this is isn't for certain...it could've been some else...say Qui Gon?), we can assume that Tyrannus was working with Sidious before he left the Jedi Order.
It has been long established that the Expanded Universe is not canon. It is considered official, but if the movies contradict what is in the books, then it is the movies that which it really goes by. Our local Frankish Shadow had a link to something that explains it quite nicely.
posted
I highly doubt that Qui-Gon was involved in Dooku's plans at all. Remember that Dooku wished Qui-Gon were still around, so that he could try to get Qui-Gon to join him. That would suggest Qui-Gon hadn't done so already before his death.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
He may not have actively joined his plans, but, as Dooku's apprentice, Qui Gon may have been involved in something he didn't realise he was involved in at the time.
quote: If it's only two, then Dooku must die before Vader enters the whole Dark Scene. Which seems likely. I am pointless
I think it would be rather fitting for Anakin to kill Dooku at Palpatine's request. "Kill him and take your place at my side. Together we will rule the universe as father and so...Emperor and Lord."
-------------------- "Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It?s us. Only us." Rorschach
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I've got a question, and I hope it is not too stupid of one... I tried to pay attention to certain details the second time I saw AOTC, but there is one thing that I'm still missing...
Sidious refers to Dooku as Tyrannus at the end of the movie... At the beginning, when Obi-Wan goes to Kamino, the Prime Minister tells him that a certain Jedi ordered the creation of the clone army... But I can't remember what the name of that Jedi was... Was it Tyrannus?
I'm trying to piece together the puzzle, but I'm falling short.... Oh, and also, is Tyrannus the name Dooku went by as a Jedi, or is it the name he goes by as a Sith, as Anakin took the name Vader when he became a Sith...?
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posted
Dooku was referred to as Lord Tyrannus, so one could rightly assume that this is a Sith name, or at the very least, his name while on the Dark Team.
Sifa-Dyas was the Jedi who was responsible for ordering the clone army. He was also intended to check up on them, but unfortunately for him, he was dead.
Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
The Kaminoans said that Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas ordered the clones. It was Jango who said he was hired by "a man named Tyranus" to be the clone template.
Registered: Mar 1999
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WERUreo
Ex-Member
posted
Thanks TSN and Mongoose for clearing that up for me! Now it makes a little more sense to me that Fett told Obi-Wan that Tyrannus was the one that hired him to be the clone template...
It makes me wonder, though... Could Dooku/Tyrannus have been Sifa-Dyas when he was still in the Jedi Order?? I mean, Obi-Wan says he thinks Sifa-Dyas died ten years ago, but he also told Luke that his father died at the hands of Vader... Perhaps when Sifa-Dyas left the Order, he was picked up by Sidious, in need for a new apprentice since the death of Maul, and turned him to the Dark Side, ordered him to go to Kamino and order the clone army, and hire Jango as the template??
Just trying to piece more things together.... Any thoughts?
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posted
^ No, I don't think Jedi change names unless they go to the Dark Side.
First of all, Obi-Wan knew who Dooku was, and he apparently also knew Syfa-Diaz as a seperate being(forgive my spelling).
Second, Dooku is mentioned as a "political idealist" by Windu in the opening scene. He didn't change his name, and he's not unknown to the average citizen in the Republic. As far as anyone knows, he's a former Jedi who is disillusioned with the government and leading the rogue systems who have left the Republic. My point is, it seems pretty clear Dooku has always been known as Dooku ... once he was Jedi Master Dooku, student of Yoda, teacher of Qui-Gon. Now he's a "Count" (?!) and leader of the breakaway systems. But, no, he was never "Syfa Diaz" (although he could've presented himself as such to the Kaminos).
posted
I still am wondering about the similarity between "Sifo-Dyas" and "Sidious." There is some connection implied, but what it is is beyond grasp until more is revealed. I firmly believe that Sidious and Palpatine are the same person, as it is rather obvious and furthermore Lucas and McCullum have said so outright. But as to this "Sifo-Dyas," I am most interested.
And, about the whole "Count" thing. According to the Visual Dictionary, that's the family title held by his ancestors on his homeworld of Serenno. After quitting the Jedi order, he returned to Serenno and took up the family title.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
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posted
Well, it could be possible there are several clones - Sidious, Palpatine, Sypho-dias? Maybe all with subtle differences.
Presumably Yoda/Mace could detect Palpatine's strength with the force?
I think Sypho-dias had a sister Cameron.
It's clear Sypho-dias was a well-known Jedi - Obi-Wan knew of him Dooku was always Dooku.
Palpatine/Sidious is just pulling the strings on both sides. 1. He has created the separatists 2. He has created a clone army to counter the separaist threat (I mean why not just let them leave? It was Palpatine who got all "nusty" in his office about not letting the Republic break up) 3. It can become his Army to use for - in the long term to take control of the Republic and turn it into the Empire, to destroy the Jedi.
And reguards the "always two there are, a master and an apprentice" - I guess this could apply to the Jedi in IV, V and VI... Yoda/Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda/Luke Skywalker, Luke Skywalker/Leia "there is another" Organa.
PLUS I thought they were going to explain why Qui-Gon didn't do the whole Jedi ghost thing in AOTC?
Andrew
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
"...I mean why not just let them leave? It was Palpatine who got all 'nusty' in his office about not letting the Republic break up..."
Because then the senate wouldn't have granted him emergency powers, and he wouldn't be able to take over.
As for Qui-Gon, the novel suggests that, when he yells out for Anakin to stop killing the Tuskens, Yoda doesn't understand what's going on. So, apparently, the "Force ghost" trick was unknown until Qui-Gon managed it.
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