posted
Oh, I'm sure the Empire's minitru is going at full speed, but propaganda doesn't have quite the same grip on people who are more immediately involved in the situation you are attempting to spin. And it works in the other direction too. It always helps, if you are trying to build a totalitarian state, to keep your military and civilian populations seperate, so that you won't be placed in the awkward situation of having some higher-up balk when ordered to, say, blow up his home planet.
(But note that I'm not saying: "Hey, they're all clones for sure!" I just don't think there's enough information to say that clones are economically unviable in Star Wars.)
Registered: Mar 1999
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"Oh, I'm sure the Empire's minitru is going at full speed, but propaganda doesn't have quite the same grip on people who are more immediately involved in the situation you are attempting to spin."
I think, though, his point is that, if your relative gets killed fighting for the Empire, you're not going to file a complaint with the Emperor's office. If you did, they'd just accuse you of hating freedom and letting the terrorists win. ...er, rebels win.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Let me put this another way - I think the whole reason Sidious planned the clones was so that the clone army could be completed entirely in secret -- certainly, even in a government body as big as the Republic, people would notice if their kids were being drafted into an illegal military. In addition, of course, to fighting the Separatist Movement in the war he planned, cloning an army would -- at least initially -- provide Sidious with what he needed to sieze control of the Republic, both by exterminating the Jedi, and by forcing unruly planets to submit to his rule.
Furthermore, we know that the Grand Army of the Republic is made up entirely of clones. Led by Jedi, certainly, but the army itself, from the highest ranking officer, to the pilot corps, to the lowest buck-private, is made up of Jango Fett clones.
Yet in the Star Wars Trilogy, we see Imperial military personnel who are not clones -- the officers on the Star Destroyer, the troopers guarding the detention blocks and dragging away Captain Needa's corpse. The technicians lined up in rows in the Star Destroyers' control pits. These are all clearly folks who have either been conscripted or willing enlisted in the service of the Empire's military.
Logic would then lead us to the conclusion that the Empire has done away with clones altogether. I suppose you could make the arguement that the Empire kept clones for its Stormtrooper ranks, but why not just accept the foregone conclusion? The Empire is a military dictatorship, and why pay for clones when they can just draft the able-bodied male population of any given world to suit their needs?
quote:And silencing your complaint constitutes an expense, is all I'm saying.
Does it ever seem to you like the Empire cares about that expense? I mean, they killed how many billions of people when they destroyed Alderaan?
posted
$$$SPOILER SPECLATION- NOT TO OFFEND SNAY OR LIAM, SO THERE!$$$
It seems to me that part of Palpaltine's plan in creating the war between seperatists and the Republic's clone army is to both eliminate any potential dissidents from his planned Empire (the Seperatists would have been part of the Rebel Alliance is not eliminated in Ep. III) and to discredit the Jedi's in the eyes of the senate.
This means Palpaltine is probably the smartest super-baddie of all time in sci-fi (or he can see the future with uncanny clarity...well, untill Luke comes along and Vader chucks him down the bottomless pit).
So (as speculation here), I think Sideous plans the war faaaar in advance (from both sides) as a means to both consilidate personal power and to kill off the Jedi as revenge for....er...his not being popular in galactic high-school.
Or something.
Hopefully, we'll find out exactly why the Sith have his bug up their asses over the Jedi.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I didn't say they didn't care about expense, I said they didn't seem to care about *that* expense, i.e., killing people who make a fuss.
And if the Empire is going to clone their army -- why not their officers, or techs? I mean, it'd probably be nice to have enough competent officer clones on board the Executor so that personnel isn't always looking for a new ship's admiral, right?
posted
See, the thing is, you seem to be saying it has to either be all clones or no clones. All I'm saying is there's plenty of room for clones in Star Wars if Lucas wants to keep them around.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Why clone your officers? Imagine an army tody led by WWI officers...
No, a cloned officer structure would not allow for new thinking or innovative ideas.
Besides, an enemy could work up a psyche profile on say all your generals, and predict your battleplans over and over.
I tend to agree with Sol tht there is room for both clones and conscripts/recruits (though I think there would be unavoidable animinity between them).
I prefer Zahn's notion that after the Clone Wars, cloning tech was outlawed by the Empire -after all, a rebel force might easily clone up an effective army in secret in oh, say...ten years.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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I am the antithesis of polka music but you dont see me killing off polka musicians.
yet.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
No rule against having clone and non-clone Stormtroopers. It doesn't have to be all or none.
In fact, it's a big galaxy. The Empire needs lots of troops. Plus you need to replace ones killed in combat. Can enough clones be grown to fill all the requirements? Can supplementary troops be enlisted from the general populace?
quote: I prefer Zahn's notion that after the Clone Wars, cloning tech was outlawed by the Empire -after all, a rebel force might easily clone up an effective army in secret in oh, say...ten years. [
Plus the fact that Luke receives a mechanical hand at the end of Empire. If cloning technology is abundant and legal, then why not clone a new hand instead of using a bionic implant?
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Maybe they don't have the medical knowledge to graft a new hand on?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Hard to believe. I think we can do that now.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
Boy, discussions about aspects of Star Wars that Lucas obviously put great deals of thought into sure are fun.
Registered: Nov 1999
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