quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: This whole conversation fuels my belief that Sidious was Master Sifo Dias all along and that it was he who ordered the clones. Most likely, Sifo Dias was just a mass hallucination. All the Jedi know he was alive and on the council and that he died abotu 10 years ago... but know one really knows the specifics.
If Sideous had direct involvement in ordering the clones, it would have been easier for him to slip in all kinds of easter eggs.
That calls into question some seriously evil programming and collboration with Palpaltine on the part of the Kaminoloids though.
It's not as though they would have installed a program into the clones to "kill all the Jedi" if they were being paid by the Jedi Counci (through Sifodias).
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
It needn't have been a "kill all the Jedi" program. It could've simply been a "kill the Jedi in charge of your unit" command, which could have been made to seem like a perfectly reasonable safety feature in the event that a Jedi tried to use the clones for something e-vil. And coming from a Jedi council member, it would seem even *more* reasonable.
Further clean-up of Jedi stragglers could have been done after Episode 3 using clones or other means.
quote:It's not as though they would have installed a program into the clones to "kill all the Jedi" if they were being paid by the Jedi Counci (through Sifodias).
It was just the one kaminoan, he'd just gotten his two week notice.
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Aban: I had thought the same thing too. What havoc could a turned Jedi do with an elite unit of stormtroopers who might possess sensitive information and training?
And am I wrong in remembering in Dark Empire that Leia was given a holocron by an underground force-sensitive being?
-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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Well, there are apparently Force sensatives all over the place, at least according to what I know about the books. Especially after the fall of the Jedi, it makes sense that they'd grow up to be things other than Jedi.
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Not that it's canon, perse, and it's obviously well before the timeline of the movies, but in KOTOR there was a non-Jedi (though Jedi trained) force-user living in obscurity on the rim. Given the breadth of the SW universe, I can't imagine his story is unique.
Also Kenobi's line in ANH, "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights." for all its misdirection has always, at least to me, seemed to imply more than the one-day youngling & temple rampage Annakin goes on while the rest of the Jedi get shot in the back. What is it, 18 years or so before Ep 4? That's a lot of time for Vader to make a name for himself as Darth Vader hunting down the stragglers.
quote:Nim' was all: Since it was called "order 66" (omen?) there probably were all sorts of other commands as well, like in the "Command & Conquer: Red Alert"-games; 'return to base' or 'retreat'.
One could go so far as to assume that there are orders 1-65 with speculation about what those do. I imagine all sorts of safeguards and backdoors would be installed for the clone troopers if only to ensure that a force so powerful could not be easily misdirected (as a few people have already suggested).
My only problem with Palpatine being Sifo Dias in disguise is that it takes away from my brilliant pet theory that it was, in fact, the Jedi (or some well-intentioned faction of the Jedi) that ordered the clone army anticipating the need for such a force against the separatists. Which justifies Palpy's concerns about the Jedi wanting to take over and perhaps makes the Jedi a little less perfect. I'm not sure about the economics of the Old Republic, but I imagine sponsoring a clone army on that scale would require V A S T resources.
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I was basing my assumption on that a few characters from the DF 2 computer game have on their bios that they were once Jedi who betrayed the order and turned to the dark side
-------------------- "Sweet Jesus, do you have to use the whole can?" -Metatron
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quote:It's not as though they would have installed a program into the clones to "kill all the Jedi" if they were being paid by the Jedi Counci (through Sifodias).
It was just the one kaminoan, he'd just gotten his two week notice.
He was bitter because the other cloners made fun of his short (only 18" long) neck.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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quote:It's not as though they would have installed a program into the clones to "kill all the Jedi" if they were being paid by the Jedi Counci (through Sifodias).
It was just the one kaminoan, he'd just gotten his two week notice.
He was bitter because the other cloners made fun of his short (only 18" long) neck.
Ah, neck envy. The root cause of so many troubles.
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I think the Kaminoloids would be the best cosplay dressers ever- long necks, weird voices, giant eyes...
They just need to grow some pink and blue plants to stick on their heads and they're all set.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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WizArtist II
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posted
How old was Luke supposed to have been in IV? I recall him talking about applying for the academy or some such and had been left behind for a couple of seasons. In my mind, I had always thought of him as 20 or so at the time the Metalheads answer to Laurel & Hardy showed up. That's two decades of hiding for any Jedi that survived their personal Pearl Harbors.
I do think its odd that when Luke shows up that Ben seems to have little REAL interest in him and that Luke didn't seem to know much about him at all. I would've thought that Obi would have checked in a LOT more often. Also, it seemed obvious that Vader thought that Padme had died BEFORE giving birth. If that is the case did he just assume that Luke Skywalker was his (he could have been from another family member) or did the Force lead him to that conclusion. If the force was the way he knew Luke for his own little squirt, then why didn't he also know Leia? Afterall, he was around her much longer than he was around Luke.
Why wasn't Yoda watching over Leia? We see female Jedi, so why wasn't she considered worth watching? I certainly don't think sitting in a swamp for 20 years is accomplishing much. And saying that he was viewing from afar?
ALso, the "lessons" YOda had for Obi, to learn how to communicate from BEYOND....amazingly Anakin didn't need any such lessons to pop up again, so why mention it? Especially if you don't even have Qui show up at that perfect moment?
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
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Who says Yoda wasn't watching Leia? He reminded Obi Wan of her potential.
In the EU, Vader does some investigating about the young pilot who destroyed the first Death Star, finds out who he his, and then starts this huge hunt for him having learned that he is his son. He had no such reason to start looking for Leia because even Padme apparently didn't know she was having twins.
Maybe Yoda or Obi Wan got in touch with Anakin after his departure and helped him on the path.
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Or as suggested, maybe Qui-Gon had been sort of working on Anakin/Vader? Or perhaps Vader somehow found some writings on the issue of "immortality" (which I'd call more of an ascendence then anything...) from either Qui-Gon's quarters or the Jedi Temple computer systems?
As to Order 66, I too, agree that it was likely hard-wired in to the minds of the 'Troopers. Likely as a described failsafe by Darth Sidious/Sifo Dias to the Kimonoans. Kinda scary how quickly those 'Troopers turned on the Jedi and how easy it seemed for them.
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