posted
Ok... so in ep. I we establish that Annie was conceived by the midichlorians, right? And in ep. III Sidious goes on about Darth Plaguis who could create life with the midichlorians, and how his apprentice murdered him after he'd taught him everything... So is Sidious implying that HE was Plagius' apprentice? And if so, does that mean he conceived Anakin, making him his father, and Luke's grandfather? I'd like your perspectives on the 'Darth Plagius' speech.
-------------------- "Brave men are vertebrates: they have their softness on the outside, and their toughness in the middle" -Lewis Carrol
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I think we already covered this in one of the other Ep 3 threads. It seems pretty clear to me that Palpatine was Plageus' apprentice. What he told Anakin is not a Sith legend... it's what Palpatine knows first hand.
As far as the rest, basically two possibilities present themselves:
1) Palpatine was in fact able to force the Midichlorians to create life and created Anakin. The problems with this are that it would have had to have been a blind creation, with Palpatine not knowing where his creation would be born. Consider that Anakin never would have been found had Qui Gonn and Obi Wan been killed on the Trade Fed ship as Palpatine had ordered. Somehow knowing that they would escape and end up on Tatooine and somehow make it back safely is a stretch. And the idea that he would create something that might one day threaten him without having any control over it doesn't seem very inSidious.
2) It was BS. Palpatine knows that Anakin was apparently conceived by the Midichlorians as does Anakin himself. By implying that the Dark Side might have been responsible for his birth, he was trying to create a connection with Anakin that would further gain his allegiance.
posted
Actually the more prevalent theory that I've seen touted about regarding Anakin's immaculate conception is that it was Darth Plagueis who directed the space-herpes^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Midichlorians to create Anakin, thus making him the effective 'father' in a sense.
But likewise that is far too big a stretch. Also I should point out that Sidious admits he doesn't know how to save Padm� to Anakin, but says that together they could discover his master's secret, thus eliminating him as a possible Darth Daddy. Plagueis never taught Sidious that one power.
-------------------- Garbled, confusing and quite frankly duller than an inflight magazine produced by Air Belgium.
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posted
Of course, with all this TESB and RotJ talk about Emperor Palpatine "foreseeing" this and that, there might have been no coincidence or blindness involved in the first place. Darth Plagiarious just decided to create life on Tatooine for some Sith reason (perhaps the Hutt wages on setting up the necessary machinery were lower), and Darth Sidious was fully in on the plan but saw no disadvantage in letting the kid grow on the sandball for a few years before sending somebody to pick him up.
And just as Sid foresaw, the Jedi did the dirty work for him - either subconsciously guided by the Force, or deliberately manipulated by Sid, or perhaps because Qui-Gon, too, was in on the plan somehow. Quiggy's actions are shady in other respects, such as pretending that Ma Schmi cannot be brought to Coruscant with Ani... It's not implausible that he'd be toying with the Dark Side, too, or at least messing with Dark experiments in risky ways. Shit, he could be the mysterious Sifo Dyas if need be, supposedly serving Jedi interests in unconventional ways, but really being a Dark Side pawn through and through.
Or then the Jedi pickup of Anakin was indeed "random", but Sid had foreseen it early on and could rely on it delivering the kid to his hands - just like he could rely on Luke coming to him at the time and place of his choosing, despite all the uncertainties involved.
posted
Or maybe he fathered a few more kids in random locations? Hoping some Jedi would stumble across them? Nah, that would only mean more sequels...
-------------------- "Brave men are vertebrates: they have their softness on the outside, and their toughness in the middle" -Lewis Carrol
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posted
Allow me to propose a question more within our reach perhaps: what is the proper spelling of this wise Sith's name? I count no fewer than three on this one string.
-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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posted
Plagueis, I believe. And the intent of that whole scene was to mirror the "I am your father" scene between Vader and Luke from ESB. In fact, a passage from the script makes it even more explicitly clear:
quote:DARTH SIDIOUS I have waited all these years for you to fulfill your destiny... I arranged for your conception. I used the power of the Force to will the midichlorians to start the cell divisions that created you.
ANAKIN I don't believe you.
DARTH SIDIOUS Ahhh, but you know it's true. When you clear your mind, you will sense the truth. You could almost think of me as your father.
ANAKIN That's impossible!
DARTH SIDIOUS Nevertheless, you must decide.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Well, for one thing, it was pronounced "plague-us". From what I've seen elsewhere, I think it's supposed to be "Plagueis".
"Consider that Anakin never would have been found had Qui Gonn and Obi Wan been killed on the Trade Fed ship as Palpatine had ordered."
You're assuming that Sidious wanted Anakin to be found, therefore killing the Jedi who were going to find him would be dumb. But, if he never intended for the Jedi to find Anakin, there's nothing strange about his ordering the death of some Jedi who are meddling in his affairs.
I would guess that the discovery of Anakin was purely accidental, and, once it had already happened, Sidious simply had to change his plans a bit.
"Also I should point out that Sidious admits he doesn't know how to save Padm� to Anakin, but says that together they could discover his master's secret, thus eliminating him as a possible Darth Daddy."
Unless, of course, he was lying. If he claims not to know the secret, then he doesn't have to tell Anakin what it is. And if he doesn't give away the secret, he can keep stringing Anakin along. As soon as he gives up the secret, he runs the risk of Anakin turning on him.
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posted
And, to reply to the intervening post, I sure hope that the reason they cut those lines was because they realized that it wasn't so much a "mirror" of the TESB scene as it was a rip-off.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Yes they are, according to page 82 of The Making of Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith. And while I agree that the refined and more subtle dialogue from the final film is superior, my point was that the intent was clearly for Palpatine/Sidious to be Ani's daddy.
As for the "discovery" of Anakin, I might even go so far as to speculate that Palpatine planned the whole thing. I mean, it *is* rather convenient the way the Queen's ship (and its Jedi passengers) broke through the blockade. They could have been damaged in the way they were intentionally, with Sidious *knowing* that the nearest neutral world was Tatooine and that they'd have to set down there. Darth Maul certainly knew just where to find them. And Palpatine's political/military maneuverings are already in full swing at this point...
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
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posted
The one thing I'd do for sure if I was a Sith lord who had murdered my master and taken his place is use my powers to create a superpowered apprentice of my own, because there is no possible flaw in this plan.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well it did work for, what, twenty-odd years or so. I mean not even counting the time that he was only Chancellor Palpatine.
I realize Mim's info trumps this, but my pet theory was that Plagueis created Anakin (why Schmi? dunno) and that Palpatine knew he was going off and doing his life-generating experiements somewhere, but didn't know where. And it's only after Plagueis is dead and Sidious has had some time to collect data that he figures out who this little force-prodigy is. At a certain point, I imagine Dooku would be filling Sidious in on details like the whispers of his chosen-ness and the boy's midichlorian count. Also I hate midichlorians. I'll never forgive them for the death of my boy.
Registered: Sep 2000
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![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
is that it was Darth Plagueis who directed the space-herpes^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Midichlorians to create Anakin, thus making him the effective 'father' in a sense.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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