posted
I have to say that I grew up with the original Star Wars trilogy.
When I heard that Lucas was going to make the parts that he couldn't make first time round, I was excited.
But my excitement turnd to anger whan I saw TPM, was somewhat mollified by TAotC, and I have not seen TRotS.
My point is this: Lucas could have made the prequals straight after the original trilogy screened, or any time thereafter, if the need to tell the whole story was paramount (no pun intended). But he waited almost 30 years, to "ensure that the technology was in place to tell the story properly".
I contend that in the intervening years, he forgot the plot and tried to remember what was in his head originaly, and failed miserably.
I think he should go back, strip out all the confusing and uneeded visuals and get the original screenwriter to re-word the scripts.
Oh, and refrain from any involvement with Star Wars from this point out.
posted
Repeat after me. Lucas didn't have a definite story in mind when he made the original trilogy.
When Lucas made Star Wars (later subtitled A New Hope), he kept reworking and reworking his various ideas, plots and scenes. Place names changed, people changed, etc... An early concept had Skywalker as a General, the hero as Deak Starkiller, Alderaan was the capital city of the Empire and the Jedi were more like Shoguns or Ninjas.
As the story evolved, he tucked away the ideas and concepts he didn't use and saved them for later. One of the early story concepts for Star Wars even had a character named Mace Windu.
Even after Empire Strikes Back Lucas didn't have a firm direction in mind. Look at the rough draft for "Revenge of the Jedi." All the basic elements and scenes are there, they are just mixed up really well.
It's clear, however, that Lucas did have the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker pretty well in mind when, 30 years later, he turned his attention to making the prequil trilogy. The events from Phantom Menace through Revenge of the Sith flow together very well, especially with the double-dealing macanations of Darth Sidious tying all three movies together.
But these ideas weren't in place in 1983 when Return of the Jedi premiered.
Were the Prequles necessary? Maybe. Maybe not. Aren't all films personal indulgence on some level?
But, by the time Star Wars was relabled "Episode IV, A New Hope" the fans wondered what episodes I-III were all about.
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
In my opion, the PREQUELS were completely self-indulgent: I'M GEORGE LUCAS GODDAMIT! LOOK AT THE UNIVERSE ONLY I COULD CREATE... etc. The original trilogy isn't a classic because of the special effects. I think that's where Lucas went astray. The original WAS mindblowing, visually, for its time, but it's strengths lay in the care given to the story and characters. You could tell that it came from the heart. The new trilogy, on the other hand, seems to me to come from someplace closer to George's ass: his wallet. In these new films, all I saw was Lucas basking in his own mythos, and coming up with all sorts of merchandising ideas. I mean, he had Yoda plugging Pepsi, for Chrissake.
On the other hand, I AM a bitter old bastard, so that may have coloured my opinion somewhat...
-------------------- "Brave men are vertebrates: they have their softness on the outside, and their toughness in the middle" -Lewis Carrol
Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Veers: "Prequel" God, it's been spelled three different ways already.
Prequil. Like Nyquil.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Jason's spelling foibles are sent to him from a higher plame.
I suspect that George Lucas would make a really incredible producer. I.E. not director. OTOH, there is some great stuff in the prequels and I find it difficult to believe they were motivated entirely by profit. I think we tend to be a little blinded having grown up on the Holy Trilogy. If you took these out of the context of Eps 4-6, they'd still be making pretty high marks. Go see Sith before making up your mind. It's quite a lot better.
Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Bones McCoy: all I saw was Lucas basking in his own mythos, and coming up with all sorts of merchandising ideas. I mean, he had Yoda plugging Pepsi, for Chrissake.
And the original series never had Chewie talking about Burger King?
What exactly is meant by "self-indulgence" here anyway? Are you saying that he made the films just because he could? Exactly when has a film ever been "necessary"?
(And can we throw "I grew up with the original trilogy" into the Big Can Of Overused Cliches That Must Never Be Used Again In A Serious Converation?)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well, when i grew up, with the original trilogy, "self-indulgence" meant Lucas making movies just so he could once again be heaped with praise for his 'groundbreaking' visual effects, 'huge' universe, etc. Like I said: "I'm George Lucas! LOOKATME! I'm a genius..." ad nauseum.
He's had one BRILLIANT idea, and he's exploited it till it turned to crap. His own dream, his own vision, and look what he's done to it.
And PsyLiam, you're right: these films weren't "necessary" at all.
But, as I said, I am bitter, so don't take my comments to heart. I actually did enjoy "Sith", somewhat, if only in the sense that it brought closure to the story. Tied everything together quite well. Can't say much for the writing, acting, or direction, but when's the last time you got everything you want, right?
-------------------- "Brave men are vertebrates: they have their softness on the outside, and their toughness in the middle" -Lewis Carrol
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
My use of the term 'indulgence' refers to the overuse of CGI which seems to have been used because the technology was there, rather than because it enhanced or added to the story - in my opinion, he over did it and spoilt, visually, what should have been very powerful and elegant images of the Old Republic.
And poor scripts, which sound as if they were done by kids writing a school play.
I simply won't mention the CGI buffoon that should have been shot on sight. Another indulgence on Lucas' part.
Also, his inclusion of big name actors such as Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor draws away from the story IMHO. The original trilogy had Sir Alec Guinness, a veteran actor, who's heyday was between the 40's and 60's. I would have liked to have seen little known actors in the primary roles. I think having 'stars' in such key roles was an 'indulgence'.
quote:And the original series never had Chewie talking about Burger King?
Not that I recall. But there was a breakfast cereal called "C-3POs."
The two driods did public service commercials and posters about education and vaccinations.
And we won't even discuss the Toys.
It was mid or late 90s when Lucas signed an agreement with PepsiCo. At that time we joked at work about seeing a commercial depicting a field of Jedi dueling with lightsabers. After one intense moment the camera zooms close to one Jedi knocking back a Pepsi before rejoining the fray.
Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Bones McCoy: He's had one BRILLIANT idea, and he's exploited it till it turned to crap. His own dream, his own vision, and look what he's done to it.
Not to be trite, but aren't American Graffitti and THX-1138 considered to be quite good?
And my Burger King comment wasn't meant to be a literal example. But the point remains...how is Vadar promoting the use of American Express (or whatever) any different that Threepio having his own cereal?
The original series had Alec Guiness, who was famous. The new ones had McGregor, who is famous. The original had an unknown playing Luke, and the new ones had an unknown playing Anakin. Granted, there may have been more "names" in the new one, but isn't that likely to be down to the fame the series had garnered?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Absolutely. I remember some of the interviews with Samuel L. Jackson before TPM came out, and he had wanted to be in the Star Wars movies even if he was just another nameless Stormtrooper behind a helmet. Obviously, Lucas put Sam's talents to better use.
quote:Originally posted by Albertus: Also, his inclusion of big name actors such as Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor
Pretty much everyone prior to TPM (or at least the announcement that McGregor would be in TPM): "Ewan who?"
Some of us would know who he was (face not name) because of Trainspotting, but that film was really more of a cult classic in the U.S. Star Wars made him a star.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Also "A Life Less Ordinary". And, er, that episode of ER.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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were completely self-indulgent: I'M GEORGE LUCAS GODDAMIT! LOOK AT THE UNIVERSE ONLY I COULD CREATE... etc.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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