"I should have said 'they'll never be ABLE to mention again'"
That's effectively what you did say. And I'm saying that's not true. They're able to mention anything they want. They just don't have to. And probably won't.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
No. Anything that Lucasfilm does not own outright is going to be off limits- unless Disney bought rights to all the various EU stuff from all the authors and gaming companies and such- which I very much doubt.
When a franchise is rented out, the company paying for the license owns all the stuff they bring to a story- for example, characters made by Dark Horse are their property- even though they were in a SW comic. This puts most of EU in the same legal limbo as stuff like Micronauts and Rom: Spaceknight, where even reprints of those comics are impossible. You should read the clusterfuck of lawsuits over the old Marvelman/Miracleman comic!
It's also why Dark Horse whipped out Omnibus Editions and collections of it's various SW series before the license expires at the start of 2015.
So, no- sadly, all the ships, tech, characters and comcepts from the hundreds of comics and books and such are going to be gone daddy gone, and that truly sucks- it regresses SW horribly in many ways.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Disney has full access to EU material. Lucas Licensing must've had better contract lawyers than whoever you refer to.
Rebels features a Kenner toy design, for instance, and the new novel "Tarkin" heavily references EU crap at the expense of the story.
By your reasoning, Dark Horse could publish their bits at any time so long as they avoided reference to Star Wars, even making toys and such. That is inaccurate.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
posted
Well, even if you're right and Lucas didn't license out the property in such a way as to retain control over what other people produced, I don't personally have a problem with it. I've never read a SW novel and never viewed them as anything more than the same sort of uplifted fan fiction that the Trek novels are.
Besides, it would probably be even worse if they did include EU stuff, since people would start picking over and complaining about every little detail that they didn't get quite right. "Uh, it clearly says on page 276 of Star Wars : The Tarbock War Chronicles : Book 2 : Zeederboo's Revenge that Yarbo Hadderblargh's third head tentacle is brown, but the movie makes it olive drab! Why does J. J. Abrams hate Star Wars fans so much?!" (You'll have to simulate the supernerd voice in your own head.)
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000: Disney has full access to EU material. Lucas Licensing must've had better contract lawyers than whoever you refer to.
Source? I've seen ZERO to suggest that. Marvel plans to start everything from scratch with their comics, so it's silly to think Disney would toss fan favorite stories and concepts if they owned them exclusivly.
quote: Rebels features a Kenner toy design, for instance, and the new novel "Tarkin" heavily references EU crap at the expense of the story.
From what Zahn told me, there are still some novels that will see publication that were held up for whatever reason, but were in progress before recent decisions. And for the record, ALL the toy stuff was always owned by Lucasfilm- something Kenner agreed to and Hasbro continued. Lucas had brilliant merchandising guys.
quote: By your reasoning, Dark Horse could publish their bits at any time so long as they avoided reference to Star Wars, even making toys and such. That is inaccurate.
Marvel does this all the time with characters they created but had their origins in a licensed property. For example, Marvel does not own the Micronauts property or the Rom: Spaceknight property- but they DO own Bug (made by Marvel in the Micronauts series and now part of Guardians of the Galaxy) and the Dire Wraiths (made to be the antagonists in the Rom comic) and used occasionally. Marvel also occasionally shows Rom's home world and other Spaceknights (which Marvel created), but Marvel can NOT reference Rom directly and has to avoid mentioning him. And they CAN'T reprint the comics from Rom or Micronauts, but CAN reprint/publish anything with the charcaters Marvel owns, but are featured in other Marvel works.
That being said, it's possible (but highly unlikely) that Dark Horse could make a Jarael and Griff comic (from Knights of the Old Republic) without ever mentioning any SW anything- but it would be a fairly generic space adventure and the hassle of it would make it more trouble than it's worth, I'd think!
So, no, DH can't publish materials exerpted from published SW comics (as Marvel can't exerpt Rom stuff), but that does not mean they dont own the stories/characters that they created- theugh they exist in a sort of limbo of heroes without a universe to be published in!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by TSN: Well, even if you're right and Lucas didn't license out the property in such a way as to retain control over what other people produced, I don't personally have a problem with it. I've never read a SW novel and never viewed them as anything more than the same sort of uplifted fan fiction that the Trek novels are.
Besides, it would probably be even worse if they did include EU stuff, since people would start picking over and complaining about every little detail that they didn't get quite right. "Uh, it clearly says on page 276 of Star Wars : The Tarbock War Chronicles : Book 2 : Zeederboo's Revenge that Yarbo Hadderblargh's third head tentacle is brown, but the movie makes it olive drab! Why does J. J. Abrams hate Star Wars fans so much?!" (You'll have to simulate the supernerd voice in your own head.)
HA! As though that won't happen anyway! Google "Han shot first" and spend the next century reading fanboy outrage.
I agree that anything from AFTER RTOJ should get omitted for the sake of not having to navigate through a hundred stories set during the timeframe of the new movies, but everything PRIOR to ANH should be retained, because it adds so much to the lore- and if you lose that, what do you have, really? Two good movies and four that need the fast forward button to get through?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
This is more SW Canon 101, just from the new textbook. First, regarding my earlier reference:
"When he created Star Wars, George Lucas built a universe that sparked the imagination, and inspired others to create. He opened up that universe to be a creative space for other people to tell their own tales. This became the Expanded Universe, or EU, of comics, novels, videogames, and more.
While Lucasfilm always strived to keep the stories created for the EU consistent with our film and television content as well as internally consistent, Lucas always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU. He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align."
And here is your "ZERO":
"While the universe that readers knew is changing, it is not being discarded. Creators of new Star Wars entertainment have full access to the rich content of the Expanded Universe."
Zahn is not and never was the final arbiter, and I have more than a few references to licensee creatives who were unsurprisingly unaware of the details.
Zahn himself, for instance, seems to have only met Lucas for a few minutes, which seems contrary to your impression that he and Lucas were joined at the hip creating post-RotJ EU:
"Bookpg SD: How much is Lucas involved in the novels?
Timothy Zahn: As far as I know, George Lucas himself is not involved. He has a liaison group that deals with the book people, the game people, etc. They do the day-to-day work. Occasionally, he will be asked a question and will give an answer."
"I did meet Lucas once for a few minutes."
"Question: I heard that George Lucas doesn't read the STAR WARS novels, or only reads a few. Has he read the Thrawn trilogy, and what did he think of it?
Timothy Zahn: As far as I know, he has not read any of the novels. From what I've heard, Lucas is a visual man. He likes comic books for the visual aspect. Frankly, I don't think he has time to read, so I'm not offended."
- Timothy Zahn, EU Author, Nov. 1997 - Interview in "The Book Report"
posted
Interesting. If authors really have access to Eu content, it means that Disney/ Lucasfilm either bought all the ancillary rights OR Lucasfilm set up a really unique liscensing contract with, well, everyone- wherein all original content created by the license holders belongs solely to Lucasfilm.
That's like leasing a car, and you add a spoiler and awesome new stereo and then, when the lease is up, you return the car- but have to ALSO give them the stereo and spoiler too!
If that's the deal, it means Lucas' skills as a business man far surpass his directorial talents. Impressive...most impressive.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I thought that was pretty standard for franchise material these days? Characters, etc., created for Trek novels are not owned by the authors either, are they? Isn't it all done as work for hire or under some similar arrangement? And wasn't Lucas' great coup in his original agreement with Fox that he would retain ALL merchandising rights?
Anyway, since we're giving impressions from the teaser, here's mine:
This movie will not make me care about Star Wars again.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I'm reminded of these weird decrees(and I remember them be described as decrees) that Lucas would seemingly make at random that writers would have then fit their stories around. I remember one about him banning wookiees from becoming jedi, after a wookiee jedi was introduced in a post-RotJ novel and became a recurring character in other New Republic novels. For Knights of the Old Republic, Bioware had seek approval for the concept of the Mandalorian Wars (as well as naming it the Mandalorian Wars), which thankfully they got. I think the Clone Wars cartoon was the beginning of the end for the EU, as many concepts established in the EU were simply ignored or radically altered with new canon (the Mandalorians again, the level of involvement of businesses like the Trade Federation and Banking Clan in the Separatist Movement, the witches of Dathomir, Darth Maul's race, etc.)
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Mim, I think that authors still have some royalties to sales- and I doubt (as unlikely as it seems) that Lucasfilm or Paramount could make a movie from one of those non-canon novels without some extra arrangment with the author.
Anyway, regarding the topic, I'm a bit torn- I have fanboy wood for the ship scenes and dread for the rest. Soccer ball droid just seems Jar Jar level stupid, but hopefully it's just a bit scene and not a story character.
I've seen enough droid stupidity to last a lifetime between CW season five and Chopper.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: I remember one about him banning wookiees from becoming jedi, after a wookiee jedi was introduced in a post-RotJ novel and became a recurring character in other New Republic novels.
And yet we had a Wookie Jedi youngling in CW. That made a wood lightsaber, even.
-------------------- I haul cardboard and cardboard accessories
Registered: Mar 1999
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No. Fuck no. The design implies that the droid's head is independant of the rest of it's body- CPU sensors and power source all in the head- that's nothing like the tech previously shown. Looks stupid as fuck too- a droid with zero function. Okay, I suppose it could be a messanger or a droid IED or possibly its a piece of sports equipment..hopefully not a astromech.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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