posted
I just saw a piece on Hughley. Apparently he had joined the army to be a professional soldier, as a way to get to college, as his family was in debt and couldn't afford it. Army representatives had pitched the idea in his school, so he had gone for it.
But the day before his unit was to ship out to Iraq, he took his car and drove for 17 hours, reaching Canada.
His motive was that the reasons the US gave for invading Iraq didn't hold water for him, it wasn't enough for him to die or kill others over, nor was the money.
He said that if he can never return to the US without being arrested and court-martialed, he's prepared to make a new life in Canada.
Registered: Aug 1999
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
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posted
While I can understand while he went AWOL, I can not understand why he would join the army in the first place (as opposed to taking any other underpaid but safer job) knowing that his CIC might send him off for reasons he couldn't reconcile himself with.
-------------------- ".mirrorS arE morE fuN thaN televisioN" - TEH PNIK FLAMIGNO
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
You take a oath to serve, you have to abide by that oath and the legal consequences agreed to with that oath.
No one drafted him or ordered him to kill innocents or anything that would justify his going AWOL.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
The news report mentioned the army representatives at his school using the service as a sales argument, as a way of getting money to buy a car or go to college. Also, I believe he joined up before the US began attacking Iraq, so he wasn't counting on being put in this position, with just the motives the Bush Administration has been able to dig up so far.
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
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Well, that's the one thing you SHOULD count on before you sign up for the service. It's a way of getting money, sure, but it's also a way of being ordered to do some damn distasteful things and possibly getting killed while carrying out those orders. He can't have been naive enough not to know that.
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Exactly, Cartman: every army commercial in the last ten years shows troops serving in the field with (suprise!) guns.
Guns arent used for anything except combat.
This guy got scared and ran (it happens) and now should return to face judgment: with the press involved, he wont get a maximum sentence. It's possible he'll get a suspended sentence and a dishonorable discharge...but not if he hides out in Canada.
They'll make an example of him for sure if he drags this out.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Does anyone know if it's possible for someone who has voluntarily joined the military to register as a conscientious objector against a particular conflict?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
That kind of defeats the purpose if your troops dont need to follow your orders to fight.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by TSN: Does anyone know if it's possible for someone who has voluntarily joined the military to register as a conscientious objector against a particular conflict?
I was explicitly told by a USMC recruiting sergeant that it wasn't.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
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On that, I'm torn. I don't think you can ever follow morally questionable orders without objecting to them. Your CO may have the authority to say you must and that they are fair and necessary, but that doesn't mean he's always & automatically right or that you should. Being a good soldier and being a patriot can sometimes be the same... and sometimes very different things, chain of command or not.
-------------------- ".mirrorS arE morE fuN thaN televisioN" - TEH PNIK FLAMIGNO
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
"I promise to obey all lawful orders made by officers superior to me".
There is a time to argue the legality of an order that, however, is not what he did. He deserted his appointed place of duty during time of war.
Contrary to popular belief it isn't that hard to get out of the military. It is hard to get out of the military without any consequences for your actions and choices however. He could have gotten out legally but there would have been a cost.
Much like Socrates and the poision this guy made a choice of free will if he is a decent man he'll abide by his oath.
This from a liberal even.
-------------------- Twee bieren tevreden, zullen mijn vriend betalen.
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
There is a military code of conduct (in the US military, anyhow) that allows refusal to follow criminal orders like firing on civillians but for the most part, following orders (quickly and without hesitation) is imporntant to keeping others in a squad (and the soldier himself) alive.
Induvuality is sacrificed to some degree for efficentcy.
Registered: Aug 2002
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As a subordinate, other than the egregious "shoot the baby in the head order," you don't have a say...nor should you.
And If you're not bright enough to realize by joining the Army, you know, those guys with the guns that go off to war, that you might have to kill people, even people you might not want to kill, well, too bad.
Either that...or when you join the Army, just mention off-hand that you know how to type.
This from a liberaler type person.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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