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Author Topic: Star Trek VI SE
PsyLiam
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Except that it's quite obvious that the president in "24" is black. At least, I assume it is. I haven't watched the show, but I'm normally pretty good at working out whether someone is black or not. I HAVE SKILLS!

But, er, it's not obvious that the President in ST VI is blind. So either they should be applauded for their subtlty, or shot for not being obvious enough.

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Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.

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Jason Abbadon
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I always just thougt he was an albino or something: he really looks no diffrent from the saratoga's conn officer to me.

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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TheWoozle
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The Novel labels them as Efrafan, but doesn't say anything about blindness.

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(some days it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps in the morning)
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MrNeutron
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quote:
Originally posted by TheWoozle:
The Novel labels them as Efrafan, but doesn't say anything about blindness.

The screenplay says nothing about it, either. Musta been an on-set decision.

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"Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon

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The Mighty Monkey of Mim
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Actually, IIRC, the novelization says he is a male Deltan---which is pure and unadulterated bullshit---and the makeup people on the film called him an Efrosian. (Named for makeup designer Mel Efros.)

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Malnurtured Snay
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Has anyone noticed that some dialogue is muted?

Kirk's last line to Spock in the quarters scene, "Come on, I need you" and Chekov's(?) line during the battle, "Excelsior's been hit!" both seemed really low, and hard to hear ... (and easy to miss).

Other things I noticed:

1. Going into the battle scene, the cute Oriental lieutenant in the grey turtleneck (who is seen on the bridge in several scenes, including the Klingon Dictionary translation) is seated at the helm. We see her in two seperate shots. After the Enterprise is hit for the first time, there's an enlisted guy in the helm seat bouncing around.

2. After Valeris "waporizes" the cooking pot, the alarm sounds. "As you know, Commander Chekov, no one may fire an unauthorized phaser about a starship." I mean, not bringing up Chekov's apparent ignorance of this, it's important to note that Valeris doesn't say "no one may fire an unauthorized phaser on a starship that is set to vaporize." No one may fire a phaser *period*. So why should it matter that the assassins were killed at close-range on stun? The alarms still would have sounded. You could argue that Valeris had "authorized" herself, but the computer would still be able to say "Lt. Valeris authorized phaser fire by herself."

Anyways ...

3) Anyone think Valeris faced any prison time? I mean, couldn't the forced mind-meld be considered, to an extent, torture?

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MrNeutron
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quote:
Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay:
Has anyone noticed that some dialogue is muted?

Kirk's last line to Spock in the quarters scene, "Come on, I need you" and Chekov's(?) line during the battle, "Excelsior's been hit!" both seemed really low, and hard to hear ... (and easy to miss).

The former is just Shatner's performance and I hear it just fine. The latter is a muted because it's not being said by an on-screen character, and it's redundant anyway. We SEE Excelsior's been hit. In fact, one thing that bugs me about this movie is all the overdubbing to explain the obvious.


Here's something I just noticed (I'm sure others have seen it before). When the Excelsior gets hit and they show the crew running around, as the big engineering door comes down, you can see the Enterprise silhouette on the wall panel there. Oops.

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"Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon

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Dat
Huh?
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Well, not pointed out by others, but when we first see Engineering (as the E-A has just exited Spacedock), the stations in front of Scotty still have the TNG graphics.

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Malnurtured Snay
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MrNeutron, but I can recall on my laserdisc of the movie, the line being much louder.

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TheWoozle
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
Actually, IIRC, the novelization says he is a male Deltan---which is pure and unadulterated bullshit---and the makeup people on the film called him an Efrosian. (Named for makeup designer Mel Efros.)

That's what I get for replying from work. It was the St: IV novelization that listed the helsman as Efrosian. By the time they made ST: VI, the same makup and prosthetics probobly had that lable.

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MarianLH
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quote:
Originally posted by TheWoozle:
That's what I get for replying from work. It was the St: IV novelization that listed the helsman as Efrosian. By the time they made ST: VI, the same makup and prosthetics probobly had that lable.

I'm afraid not. The ST IV novelization also used Deltan for the helmsman, and his name, Lt. Chitirih Ra-Dreii, is consistant with the Deltan naming style Vonda used in her other novels. Come to think of it, didn't the president have a similar style name in the ST VI novel? It's been a long while since I read it.

The novel also says he's the science officer, not the helmsman, and gives him most of the dialogue spoken by the movie's human science officer as well as his own. Obviously Vonda didn't have the final version of the script to work with. =)

(I DO wish the film had kept the whole dialogue from the "how do we know he didn't invent transparent aluminium" scene. I heard it was filmed....)

If I remember correctly, FASA's RPG sourcebook for Star Trek IV assigned the term "Efrosian" to one of the alien races in the Council Room scene. But I can't find my copy to check. On the other hand, if I remember correctly, what it says about them is worthy of being forgotten...

Marian

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Jason Abbadon
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quote:
Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay:
Has anyone noticed that some dialogue is muted?

Kirk's last line to Spock in the quarters scene, "Come on, I need you" and Chekov's(?) line during the battle, "Excelsior's been hit!" both seemed really low, and hard to hear ... (and easy to miss).

Chekov is saying "Fuckin' gook...that ship should've been mine..."
We already know Chekov's a racist (to Klingons at least) so it fits well.

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Harry
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BTW, does anyone actually have that speech of the President in text? IIRC, he says some pretty big things that should have affected the Star Trek universe way more than it did. Complete evacuation of the Klingon homeworld, cutting down forces on both sides. Hell, they even wanted us to believe that Starfleet's sole purpose was to defend Kirk's ego from the Klingons...

About the alleged blindness... If the man was blind, why did he have visual communications with Azet'bur? OTOH, his blindness might explain the Romulan ambassador being on his side most of the time [Smile]

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Jason Abbadon
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He was probably a lame duck president with only a year or so left in office anyway...
Then it was "Starfleet as usual", continuing their mission of conq...er..exploration!

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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TSN
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"If the man was blind, why did he have visual communications with Azet'bur?"

Well, she wasn't blind.

"So why should it matter that the assassins were killed at close-range on stun? The alarms still would have sounded."

Well, it may be that, if you're close enough to the person you're shooting (like, say, holding the tip of the phaser against their body), the ship's sensors can't detect the beam.

What bothers me more is how a phaser on stun can kill someone, just because the range is shorter.

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