posted
I did some brainstorming. It's possibly going to be part of a little article on the development of the Constitution class and it's nephews. If I ever manage to finish such a thing.
But that aside, this is is a history of the canon, named ships, with a little conjecture of yours truly. Let me explain some things:
[*] The ships are ordered by registry number. Or at least they are until I come up with a final construction order.
[*] Yes, TAS is included
[*] The registries:
[*]The 16** numbers are not really a problem, IMO. They could easily be explained by minor variations in the mostly sequential registry system. Probably 'left-over' hull (or contract) numbers from some fleetyard.
[*]The only real problems arise with the USS Eagle NCC-956,USS Constellation NCC-1017 and USS Republic NCC-1371. There are two reasonable explanations. One is that they could have been named in honor of older ships, like the Sao Paulo was changed into Defiant on DS9. Another explanations can be that they were originally planned to be built earlier (most likely as another class) but were postponed and later constructed as a Connie.
[*]The Enterprise's history is perhaps a bit dodgy. I've moved TMP to '73, and I'm one of those people that places TWOK in '83. But I don't know if that means I have to move the later movies too. Can someone enlighten me?
[*]I'm assuming that all (or at least most) of the ships were refitted.
[*]The months are conjectural of course, based on episodes being spaced evenly across the year.
[*]The 12 Constitution class vessels:
[*]The 8 ships from "Court Martial" must be amongst them. Unless the Essex was destroyed between the two episodes (we know all the other ships were in service after "Tomorrow is Yesterday").
[*]The Farragut and Republic were in service before TIY. Unless Farragut was destroyed, I count them. That leaves 2 more slots open.
[*]Yorktown. Just to give it a bit more history, seeing as it has to be decommisioned in 2293.
[*]Constellation. First, to leave a little room for conjecture on the low NCC, and second, because otherwise it would leave very little time for this ship, seeing as it was destroyed a few episodes later.
[*]This means that all the other ships have to have been launched AFTER early 2267. It could make sense, since the Potemkin took part in the M-5 trial, and it could've been built with an M-5 computer.
That's basically it. There'll probably be umpteen different views on the matter, but this is mine and I think it makes some sense.
(edit: ehh.. what the heck is going on with this UBB code?)
posted
The way i have always looked at it was that the Older ship were of a earlier class and Refited into Connie specs and give new reg's but never displayed there newer numbers. Cause look at Kirk when he served on the Republic if i remember that ship was quite old when he was on it. I also agree with a 2273 date for TMP but i dont know how to work it in.
But i dunno anyone else have any idea's
-------------------- Christopher [email protected] SR20Egg
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posted
This is the way i have it fixed in my data base.
2242 USS Constitution is Comm. Constitution class phase 1 from 1700-1711 2243 2244 2245 (April) USS Enterprise NCC-1701 is Comm. 2246 2247 USS Farragut NCC-1702/1647 is Reclassified USS Hood NCC-1703 is Comm. USS Defiance/Defiant NCC-1704 is Comm. USS Excalibur NCC-1705/1664 is Comm. USS Exeter NCC-1706/1672 is Reclassified USS Valiant NCC-1707 is Comm. 956/1017/1371/1631/1647/1657/1664/1672/1685/1684/1697reclassified as Constitution phase 2 *note at bottom of page 2248 USS Intrepid NCC-1708/1631 is Reclassified USS Lexington NCC-1709 is Comm. USS Kongo NCC-1710 is Comm. USS Potemkin NCC-1711/1657 is Reclassified USS Bonhomme Richard NCC-1712 is Comm. Class changed to Constitution Phase 3 2249 USS Monitor NCC-1713 is Comm. 2250 USS Hornet NCC-1714 is Comm. USS Merrimac NCC-1715 is Comm. USS Endeavour NCC-1716 is Comm. USS Yorktown NCC-1717 is Comm. 2251 USS Excelsior NCC-1718 is Comm. USS Eagle NCC-1719/956 is Reclassified USS Lafayette NCC-1720 is Comm. USS Wasp NCC-1721 is Comm. USS El Dorado NCC-1722 is Comm. USS Ari NCC-1723 is Comm. 2252 USS ???????? NCC-1724 is Comm. USS Tori NCC-1725 is Comm. USS Krieger NCC-1726 is Comm. USS Essex NCC-1727 is Comm. 2253 2254 USS Enterprise 1701 Upgraded 2255 (Pike)
956//1631/1647/1657/1664/1672/1685/1684/1697/reclassified as Constitution phase 2 *note at bottom of page Cont. These Ships were classified as a Different Class but Reclassified as a Constitution Class with old Registry�s hall numbers on the ship but given New Numbers to follow the Reclassifications. This is why you will see for example 1706/1672 For the USS Exeter. USS Republic NCC-1371 Was just Classified as a Constitution Class Only
-------------------- Christopher [email protected] SR20Egg
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posted
Interesting summary there, Harry. I've got an inconsistency in the episodes, though: wasn't the gathering of starships in "The Ultimate Computer" supposed to be unprecedented or at least Very Important? It seems very, VERY strange for eight of the twelve Constitution-class starships to be undergoing repairs at the same time -- that's a very poor (pseudo-)military deployment strategy.
IIRC, the assignment of the majority of the registry numbers is based on the assumption that ALL of the starships on the list in "Court Martial" HAD to be Constitution-class ships. That's a spurious assumption, IMO.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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posted
It's indeed a bit strange that EVERYONE assumed they were ALL Constitution class ships. But it's too late to do anything about it now. It's become canon.
My theory is that all these ships are undergoing the WNMHGB-TOS refit, i.e. adding the balls and removing the spikes. They might have all ended their 5-year missions around this time.
quote:Originally posted by Harry: What are NCC-1718 and NCC-1(6/8?)(6/8?)5?
1718 is the Endeavour and 1685 is the Eagle. That's in the Greg Jein system that first proposed that all the ships on the chart must be Constitutions. FASA and then Mike Okuda copied parts, but not all, of Jein's system.
-------------------- "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor
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posted
I may be wrong but wasn't the USS Eagle (NCC-956) identified on the Operation Retrieve chart as an Oberth-Class starship and not a Constitution as had been previously assumed?
For what it's worth here is what my own list has on the connies.
quote: U.S.S. CONSTELLATION NCC-1017 CONSTITUTION-CLASS Federation starship, commanded by Matt Decker, Science officer Masada, investigated the destruction of system L370 and the break up of the forth planet in system L374, Attacked and damaged by the object known as Planet Killer, entire crew beamed down to the third planet leaving Decker on the ship when Planet Killer attacked and disabled CONSTELLATION's transporters then destroyed the third planet with the entire crew still on the surface in 2267 DESTROYED
U.S.S. CONSTITUTION NCC-1700 CONSTITUTION-CLASS First of it's class, Operating out of Starbase 11 under the command of Commodore Stone in 2267 DECOMMISSIONED
U.S.S. ENTERPRISE NCC-1701 A CONSTITUTION-CLASS Commanded by Captain James T.Kirk, Second starship to bear the name, Suffered heavy damage during a battle over Khitomer with General Chang's advanced Klingon Bird of Prey in 2293, Decommisioned shortly afterwards DECOMMISSIONED
U.S.S. ENTERPRISE NCC-1701 CONSTITUTION-CLASS Commanded by Captain James T.Kirk, First Federation Starfleet ship to bear the name, Launched in 2245 DESTROYED
U.S.S. HOOD NCC-1703 CONSTITUTION-CLASS Operating out of Starbase 11 under the command of Commodore Stone in 2267, Participated in disastrous war-game drill with M-5 in 2268 DECOMMISSIONED
U.S.S. LEXINGTON NCC-1709 CONSTITUTION-CLASS Commanded by Commodore Robert Wesley, Operating out of Starbase 11 under Commodore Stone in 2267, Participated in disastrous war-game drill with M-5 in 2268 that killed 53 crew members DECOMMISSIONED
U.S.S. KONGO NCC-1710 CONSTITUTION-CLASS Assigned to neutral zone patrol in 2293 DECOMMISSIONED
U.S.S. MERRIMACK NCC-1715 CONSTITUTION-CLASS Cruiser, Issued communication from Epsilon IX relay station shortly before encounter with V'Ger in 2271 DECOMMISSIONED
U.S.S. YORKTOWN NCC-1717 CONSTITUTION-CLASS Scheduled to rendezvous with U.S.S. ENTERPRISE NCC-1701 in 2268, Commanded by Captain Joel Randolph in 2286, One of seven Federation vessels disabled by Cetacean probe DECOMMISSIONED
U.S.S. DEFIANT NCC-1764 CONSTITUTION-CLASS Lost to a region of spatial interphase within Tholian territory in 2268 DESTROYED
U.S.S. INTREPID NCC-1831 CONSTITUTION-CLASS All Vulcan crew, Operating out of Starbase 11 under the command of Commodore Stone in 2267, Destroyed by giant spaceborne amoebae in 2268 DESTROYED
U.S.S. SPRINGFIELD NCC-1963 CONSTITUTION-CLASS Assigned to neutral zone patrol in 2293, Potential participant of Operation Retrieve DECOMMISSIONED
U.S.S. AHWAHNEE NCC-2048 CONSTITUTION-CLASS On deep space exploration in 2293, Potential participant of Operation Retrieve DECOMMISSIONED
U.S.S. POTEMKIN NCC->UNKNOWN< CONSTITUTION-CLASS Participated in disastrous war-game drill with M-5 in 2268, On scientific survey in 2293, Potential participant of Operation Retrieve DECOMMISSIONED
U.S.S. EXCALIBUR NCC->UNKNOWN< CONSTITUTION-CLASS Commanded by Captain Harris, Operating out of Starbase 11 under the command of Commodore Stone in 2267, Participated in disastrous war-game drill with M-5 that resulted in the loss of all hands in 2268 DESTROYED
U.S.S.EXETER NCC- >UNKNOWN< CONSTITUTION-CLASS Commanded by Captain Ronald Tracey, Operating out of Starbase 11 under the command of Commodore Stone in 2267, Crew killed by Bacteriological agent at Omega IV in 2268 DECOMMISSIONED
quote:Originally posted by Harry: It's indeed a bit strange that EVERYONE assumed they were ALL Constitution class ships. But it's too late to do anything about it now. It's become canon.
This is the part where we dismiss the Encyclopedia's definitions on that specific instance due to its faulty assumptions. (The same way that we all ignore the part about Romulan warships without warp drive. )
I haven't seen any of the TOS episodes in quite a while, so I may be remembering a few things incorrectly. But I'm going to try to recount the only solid things we know about Constitution-class ships:
-- USS Enterprise, NCC-1701 (duh!) -- USS Constitution, NCC-1700 (a perfectly logical assumption) -- USS Constellation, NCC-1017 (the only one we know EVERYTHING about aside from Enterprise) -- USS Defiant, Constitution Class (REG UNKNOWN, UNSEEN) -- USS Excalibur, Constitution Class (REG NOT SEEN - IIRC) -- USS Lexington, Constitution Class (REG NOT SEEN - IIRC) -- USS Hood, Constitution Class (REG NOT SEEN - IIRC) -- USS Potemkin, Constitution Class (REG NOT SEEN - IIRC) -- USS Exeter, Constitution Class (REG NOT SEEN)
The above ships are the ones that we've seen on the TV screen directly -- although not always able to read the registry number, IIRC. (I don't remember if the numbers were legible in "The Ultimate Computer" -- I don't think so.) Therefore, the registry numbers are not set in stone.
-- USS Republic, NCC-1371 (NEVER SEEN, class possibly unknown) -- USS Intrepid, NCC-1x31 (NEVER SEEN, presumed Constitution, but only because of Spock's line of "430 Vulcans" -- not seen in "Court Martial") -- USS Farragut (NEVER SEEN) -- USS Essex (NEVER SEEN - or mentioned, IIRC) -- USS Yorktown (NEVER SEEN)
These ships were mentioned -- and often referred to as "starships" with the connotation in the 1960's being that they were identical to the Enterprise. However, given that from our perspective (and attempting to unify the ill-defined aspects of TOS before it became part of "the franchise") ALL Starfleet ships can be considered "starships," there's nothing definitive about those lines. (IMO)
If you want to get REALLY revisionist, I can tell you my wishful theory about the gravitational distortions of the planet killer which distorted the light coming from the Constellation's hull, making it look like its number was NCC-1017 when it's actually NCC-1710!
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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posted
Oh dear, I sense screaming and possible bloodshed lie somewhere in the immediate future of this thread...
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: I may be wrong but wasn't the USS Eagle (NCC-956) identified on the Operation Retrieve chart as an Oberth-Class starship and not a Constitution as had been previously assumed?
No. I've tried to point this out before, but no one seems to be listening. While nobody can tell for certain until/unless we get to see them up close, I believe that the three silhouttes on the Operation Retrieve are those of Excelsiors, Constitutions, and Mirandas. Those ones that people have mistaken for Connies are actually the Excelsiors. The other two types of silhouttes have identical-diameter saucers. They are NOT Oberths. The EAGLE name and NCC (discernable because of their short length compared with the others on the chart) *do* indeed match up with a Connie silhoutte. I *think* SCOVIL matches as well. I'm not yet convinced of most of the other name-silhoutte associations that Tim drew up in the last thread devoted to this topic. The comparative lengths of the names CHALLENGER, POTEMKIN, AHWAHNEE, SPRINGFIELD, and ENDEAVOUR are simply too similar to make a call. (I'm willing to give Okuda the benefit of the doubt, though, and believe the Endeavour also matches with a Connie, even though the registry could easily make it a Miranda as well. Given the registries, the Ahwahnee and Challenger probably match with Excelsior silhouettes.)
I think we all pretty much agree that Greg Jein's original idea of matching all the names on the "Court Martial" chart to Connies was deeply flawed. Had it remained solely a fandom conception over the years, it would no doubt be paid any heed and would be disregarded as the nonsense that it likely is. Franz Joseph's far more logical system (which actually predated Jein's by about two years and was approved by Roddenberry) would have likely become more prevalent and been perpetuated as the official scheme. However, for some reason or other, (probably because she was extremely active in fandom circles, and perhaps not well acquainted with FJ's technical literature) Bjo Trimble picked up on the Jein scheme and used parts of it in then-considered-authoritative Star Trek Concordance, with a few additions. (Defiant with NCC-1764, Potemkin with NCC-1702, Farragut with NCC-1647, and Yorktown with NCC-1717. Unfortunately, she reproduced Jein's erroneous NCC-1631 reg for the Intrepid, and mistakenly listed the Republic as NCC-1373.) This became the lexicon used by most fans and writers thereafter, and was used by FASA in the 80s as a source of Connie registries. (But, of course, they made up their own numbers for ships that Jein had originally given numbers to in his list but Trimble had omitted from hers---namely the Eagle, Endeavour, and Essex.)
Then along comes Okuda, who no doubt revered the Concordance and of course had a personal and professional relationship with Greg Jein himself---and who furthermore had been told by a bitter and vindictive Gene Roddenberry that Franz Joseph was simply a fan kook---and (surprise, surprise) he bases his numbers for the new official Encyclopedia on a combination of the Jein and Trimble schemes, though he corrects the errors of both lists and inexplicably invents new and not highly-sensical numbers for the Potemkin, (NCC-1657) Eagle, (NCC-956) and Endeavour (NCC-1895).
I have come to see that this mishmash of slightly varying but very similar number schemes all tracing their roots back to a scarcely sound premise (that all the ships on the "Court Martial" chart were Connies) is most confusing and difficult to explain. However, the fact remains that this is the scheme which Paramount (at least currently) considers to be definitive and will in all likely-hood continue to use as reference for any future projets concerning these ships. So I choose to simply make the best of it and not scrutinize too closely.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
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posted
If I had the time, I would post my own ideas. However it's a slight merging of the canon and non-canon SotF books.
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quote:I have come to see that this mishmash of slightly varying but very similar number schemes all tracing their roots back to a scarcely sound premise (that all the ships on the "Court Martial" chart were Connies) is most confusing and difficult to explain. However, the fact remains that this is the scheme which Paramount (at least currently) considers to be definitive and will in all likely-hood continue to use as reference for any future projets concerning these ships. So I choose to simply make the best of it and not scrutinize too closely.
To make a parallel of organized religions, Paramount also has to tread the line between orthodoxy and individual interpretation. Only in this case, it's just a TV show, and we can believe whatever we want!
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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posted
Re: TWOK's date... wherever you place it, it's quite clearly during the same year as the three following films. TWOK probably takes place during the early part of the year, as Saavik seems to graduate soon after. ("The First Duty" shows Starfleet graduation is in September, but personally I think it would make much more sense if it were placed towards May or June.) No more than a few weeks could have elapsed between TWOK and TSFS, and only a few months between TSFS and TVH. Again, there is only a span of weeks, perhaps a month, between TVH and TFF (Kirk mentions it as he is boarding the Enterprise). Of course, if Starfleet Academy does have graduation towards the end of the year, it's very possible TVH and TFF took place in the following year, but it's not possible that TFF happened a year after TVH. I don't know how Okuda or whoever figured out this took place over three years, but it doesn't seem very plausible.
As far as registries go, I'm a staunch Franz Joseph advocate...
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posted
On the topic of dates for TWOK, remember Kirk's gift of Romulan Ale? "2283..." "Well, it takes this stuff a while to ferment."
That means that it's at least a year, maybe two, past that.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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