quote:Originally posted by Reverend: That has to be an Oberth at the bottom of the list, I'm certain of it.
Why? Look at the image w/o the flashy silhouttes. (http://www.angelfire.com/darkside/caniva/Untitled-3_copy.gif) As I said, it appears to be identical to the one above it. (The supposed Miranda.) There's no pointy-ness towards the rear, as you would see on an Oberth, and you can almost make out nacelles.
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I can't tell you how overjoyed I am to see the Challenger and Ahwahnee as Excelsiors. That fits in with my registry switch proposal perfectly. The rest need a little juggling, though. Darn you, Okuda...
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
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Isn't the Springfield supposed to be NCC-1936 instead of 1963? If so... this is more of a line of reasoning than proof in and of itself, but... remember the USS Saratoga NCC-1937 from "The Voyager Home." Given the Springfield's number NCC-1936, that would possibly be a Miranda (if Okuda had that in mind when making the chart).
After thinking about it for a few minutes, I decided to do a graphical analysis of my own -- because I've got a font that's supposed to be nearly identical to the TMP-era computer text. And so here's my submission:
I made the frame change rate a little slower for easier analysis. If anyone complains, I can do individual pics of each frame.
My conclusions:
(1) The starship top left approaching Rura Penthe is almost certainly the Eagle, with number NCC-956. (I would've liked it to be NCC-1956, since that would fit easier...) The icon looks like a Constitution-refit.
(2) The starship top middle approaching Rura Penthe is probably the Ahwahnee, but misspelled to omit the first "H". I've tried a few other possible combinations, but this is the only one that seems to fit. (I'm also pretty sure that the "W" matches up quite well.) The icon looks like an Excelsior.
(3) The starship top right approaching Rura Penthe was the toughest of the first three. My first guess was that it was the Challenger, but that name is too long, even accounting for the fuzzy nature of this image (and considering that I'm using the same font size for each of the ships' names). It looks most like the name Excelsior itself... though it might also be "Potemkin" (which would raise all sorts of contradictions on its own). The icon looks like an Excelsior.
(4) The three starships off to the side in the "list"-like column seem to be headed by a title that says "IN RESERVE." Which makes sense given this is a military ops plan.
(5) The top ship in this column is almost certainly the Endeavour. It's too short to be "Constellation" or "Challenger," and too long for "Republic" or "Potemkin." This one is almost certainly a Constitution-refit.
(6) The middle ship in the column looks like it's probably the USS Emden. With the number NCC-1856 supplied from elsewhere, this makes perfect sense as a Miranda-class ship (which is what its icon looks like).
(7) The bottom ship in the column was the toughest, and I still haven't been satisfied yet. The closest fit I got was "Republic," but even that wasn't quite acceptable. I'm not positive of the icon, but I tend to believe it's a Miranda.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Isn't the Springfield supposed to be NCC-1936 instead of 1963?
Not according to the Concordance, which is the only source for these names and numbers that we've ever had, excepting those of the Eagle and Endeavour in the Encyclopedia. Springfield is NCC-1963.
quote:...remember the USS Saratoga NCC-1937 from "The Voyager Home."
The Saratoga was NCC-1867. The other number was a typo in the Encyclopedia. Mike Okuda is and has been aware of this, IIRC, as he had the correct number in the Shiplist (which he compiled himself) of the first edition.
quote:After thinking about it for a few minutes, I decided to do a graphical analysis of my own -- because I've got a font that's supposed to be nearly identical to the TMP-era computer text. And so here's my submission:
I made the frame change rate a little slower for easier analysis. If anyone complains, I can do individual pics of each frame.
My conclusions:
(1) The starship top left approaching Rura Penthe is almost certainly the Eagle, with number NCC-956. (I would've liked it to be NCC-1956, since that would fit easier...) The icon looks like a Constitution-refit.
(2) The starship top middle approaching Rura Penthe is probably the Ahwahnee, but misspelled to omit the first "H". I've tried a few other possible combinations, but this is the only one that seems to fit. (I'm also pretty sure that the "W" matches up quite well.) The icon looks like an Excelsior.
(3) The starship top right approaching Rura Penthe was the toughest of the first three. My first guess was that it was the Challenger, but that name is too long, even accounting for the fuzzy nature of this image (and considering that I'm using the same font size for each of the ships' names). It looks most like the name Excelsior itself... though it might also be "Potemkin" (which would raise all sorts of contradictions on its own). The icon looks like an Excelsior.
(4) The three starships off to the side in the "list"-like column seem to be headed by a title that says "IN RESERVE." Which makes sense given this is a military ops plan.
(5) The top ship in this column is almost certainly the Endeavour. It's too short to be "Constellation" or "Challenger," and too long for "Republic" or "Potemkin." This one is almost certainly a Constitution-refit.
(6) The middle ship in the column looks like it's probably the USS Emden. With the number NCC-1856 supplied from elsewhere, this makes perfect sense as a Miranda-class ship (which is what its icon looks like).
(7) The bottom ship in the column was the toughest, and I still haven't been satisfied yet. The closest fit I got was "Republic," but even that wasn't quite acceptable. I'm not positive of the icon, but I tend to believe it's a Miranda.
You seem to have forgotten what I said in my above post, so I'll quote myself to reiterate:
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Of these, only the Ahwahnee, Challenger, Eagle, Endeavour, Potemkin, Scovil, and Springfield are supposed to be on these charts. The rest were only on a starship mission assignment graphic displayed on the bridge of the Enterprise in the film.
I'm a-fearing that the distortion caused by artificially adjusting for perspective may be screwing this analysis up somewhat. At least we can tell which names are the Eagle and Scovil, since they're SO much shorter compared to all the rest.
I think i can see what your talking about with the bottom one not being a Oberth but infact is a Miranda
Im still not sure if the Eagle is a connie but if you look at the rear end of it it looks alot like a connie It could be an oberth but im leaning towards connie.
Ahwahnee Closest to Rura Penthe Challenger Im guessing this one is on the first page Eagle top left ship Endeavour top ship on the right Potemkin guessing this is on the first page also or maybe Enterprise Scovil Second ship on the right hand side Springfield Bottom Right side I think its the Excelsior on the bottom Excelsior Class.
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One would assume Mike Okuda made that Operation Retrieve chart, or had a hand in it. Had anyone ever asked him about it?
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I haven't ever personally, but from what I've always heard (it may have been gone over in some old threads here) someone did ask him, and the extent of what he had to say was that the info in the Concordance should be correct, as he gave it to Trimble. I've also heard it said that in addition to this, Trimble may have actually gotten to examine the displays herself, first hand.
As I said, though, I can't personally corroborate this.
I think Cpt. Kyle Amasov said he e-mailed Trimble to enquire as to whether or not she had pictures of the OR charts and mission assignment list, but she was busy with a convention or something at the time. Perhaps another attempt should be made? Someone above also mentioned contacting Penny Juday, who's in charge of the archives at Paramount. This also sounds like a really good idea to me, if anyone knows how to reach her.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
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What I would have liked to see added to the fancy DVDs that seem to be all the rage these days is, for each film/series, a gallery of okudagrams and assorted graphics. Alas.
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quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron: One would assume Mike Okuda made that Operation Retrieve chart, or had a hand in it. Had anyone ever asked him about it?
I asked him once and he told me that this art was archived a long time ago.
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quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: You seem to have forgotten what I said in my above post, so I'll quote myself to reiterate:
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Of these, only the Ahwahnee, Challenger, Eagle, Endeavour, Potemkin, Scovil, and Springfield are supposed to be on these charts. The rest were only on a starship mission assignment graphic displayed on the bridge of the Enterprise in the film.
I'm a-fearing that the distortion caused by artificially adjusting for perspective may be screwing this analysis up somewhat. At least we can tell which names are the Eagle and Scovil, since they're SO much shorter compared to all the rest.
Ah, my mistake. I'm just supposed to accept your word as infallible and not try to make my own conclusions?
I know that the chart was distorted, that it's very fuzzy, and that this is probably only supporting evidence at best pending a better image. But there's no reason that I can't try some idea of my own in the mean time. And making automatic assumptions during research can seriously preclude any new discoveries. Besides, did you take a look at the "RURA PENTHE" label, and see how perfectly that fit? If that one fits, then it's reasonable to assume that some of the others can fit, at least partially.
Also, I've heard several times that "Ahwahnee" has been misspelled on at least one of the TNG Okudagrams... so it would make sense that it was done here, too. And if you take a close look, the misspelled name "Awahnee" fits perfectly in that middle ship.
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Wow... Someone somewhere must have been bored enough to transcribe old T-Negative issues from the early '70s... But I have no idea where to start looking, beyond a Google search for "t negative greg jein" -- but I don't want to right now. If no one has by morning (my time) I'll do it.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
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I did attempt an search. There are old issues of T-Negative available on the internet; however, these issues pre-date the issue in question.
In the episode "The Menagerie, Part 1", Captain Kirk says there have been no invasions or word of imminent war. From these brief words, I infer the episode occurs in a time of peace for the Federation. "Court Martial" is the episode before this. I think it possible there was a time of peace in this episode as well.
Like our USN did in the years before WWII, the capital ships were docked together as in Pearl Harbor. I think SB 11 was a space age version of Pearl Harbor. The Constitution Class starships were docked at the space port for routine maintenance.
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Or then were deployed all across the galaxy. There's nothing in that chart that would say "These ships are currently at Starbase 11"!
Perhaps each and every Starbase has an identical display showing the "Star Ship Status" and the percentage of their mission completed so far? The Intrepid just happened to have completed her mission already, pulled to dock for repairs, and was gathering "overtime" awaiting for her next deployment orders, hence the >100% completeness status - all ships with completeness below 100% were still in deep space performing their missions.
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It could be an oberth but im leaning towards connie.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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