Now the challenge: can you convince Jeff of this? I was having an argument with him last night, and the best he could do was say "There is no God. Fact." Repeating yourself over and over is not making an argument. It's more like that 99% of protestors that Rob likes to bash. You know, the ones incapable of thought?

if my memory was working, I'd quote that line Kira once said about faith as a counter-argument. But I isn't, so I can't, so I won't.

Which is, people whose only contribution that they are capable of making is to stand somewhere shouting slogans somebody else made up, but when you try to engage them in rational discourse about the issue (if you take up a contrary position), all they can do is chant louder.

Erm. Omega, buddy, as I told you repeatedly, I am open to the possibility that a supernatural force (be it God, Allah, Shiva or Steven Seagal) created the universe. However, I do not accept it as a certainty.

And for this, you call me "not open minded." Hah!

Speaking of which, here's a recent bit we had on ICQ:

quote:

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Jeff: (11:57 PM) Well, as you said (in regards to my Jim-Bob statement), "you propose existance outside the universe." Explaining the creation of the universe still assumes existance outside the universe.

Omega: (11:58 PM) Always. But that existence must be timeless. I thought you were implying that we were simply a result of a different universe.

Jeff: (11:59 PM) Well, who knows? Of course, there's always the possiblity that the universe has always existed. But the point I'm trying to make, is that I'm peeved that you said I wasn't open-minded for not accepting the CERTAINTY of something, but rather, the POSSIBLITY of it.

Omega: (12:00 AM) You're not open-minded because you're set in your ways. There is no other possibility, therefore this one is the correct one, by process of elimination.

Jeff: (12:01 AM) I completely disagree with that.

Omega: (12:02 AM) The part that there's no other possibility?

Jeff: (12:02 AM) That, as you suggest that God is timeless, the universe is timeless.

Omega: (12:03 AM) Impossible. The amount of entropy in the universe is constantly increasing. There must have been a point where entropy was zero: the beginning.

Omega: (12:04 AM) You see, it's a little known fact that the laws of nature contradict each other. The law of increasing entropy demands a beginning to existence, and yet the law of mass-energy conservation doesn't allow for one.

Jeff: (12:04 AM) Maybe it just decided to expand ... or maybe it shrinks, then expands, then shrinks, then expands ...

Omega: (12:04 AM) That would require decreases in entropy, which is impossible. At least, without some entity capable of violating the laws of nature. :-)

Jeff: (12:05 AM) Okay, you got me. I'm God.

Jeff: (12:05 AM) Altho I prefer being called Steven.

Omega: (12:05 AM) Yes, we all know you think that.

Jeff: (12:06 AM) It's okay, I won't scoop Tennessee from the face of the earth. Just accept it. I'm Ste ... er, God.

Omega: (12:06 AM) *SMITE*

If you were God, could I have done that and gotten away with it?

Jeff: (12:07 AM) Could you have typed *smite*? Sure. You can also type "you stupid sack of shit." But I've gotten better at ignoring people then about 3,000 years ago or whenever when I flooded the world.

Omega: (12:08 AM) I REALLY wish they hadn't canceled "God, the Devil and Bob"...

Jeff: (12:09 AM) So sorry. Didn't you say you had to go to bed?

Omega: (12:09 AM) I lied.

Jeff: (12:09 AM) New sig

Omega: (12:10 AM) You know, I have infinitely better quotes than that.

Jeff: (12:10 AM) Well, since this conversation is going to be repetitions of me saying, "I am open minded" and you saying "no you're not there's only one possiblity!" let's change the subject.

Jeff: (12:10 AM) Yes, I know ... I've got a great one I'm still using.

Omega: (12:10 AM) Mine's better. :-)

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That gem of a quote highlighted by me ... for obvious reasons -- er, you know, the one in bold

[ August 09, 2001: Message edited by: MeGotBeer ]