quote:Pentagon's false-news plan sets off alarm bells
By JOHN IBBITSON
With reports from AP, Reuters and AFP
Wednesday, February 20, 2002 � Print Edition, Page A1
WASHINGTON -- Defence and media experts were alarmed yesterday by a report that a little-known Pentagon office wants to plant false stories in the international media to bolster support for the U.S. war on terrorism.
The New York Times said that the Office of Strategic Influence, which was established after Sept. 11, is proposing to plant news stories -- some of which may be deliberately false -- with foreign media, using outside publicity firms or manufactured agencies to cover the source of the information.
"We shouldn't be in that business. Leave the propaganda leaks to the CIA, the spooks," one defence official said.
Media analysts agreed. "Setting out to deliberately lie or 'spread misinformation' can't have anything but a terrible impact down the road for any nation that claims to be an open and democratic society," Freedom Forum analyst Paul McMasters said. "The only thing more dangerous than reacting in panic is to set out on a deliberate policy of lying and deception, where it is next to impossible for ordinary people, Americans or otherwise, to know what is the truth and what is a lie."
Such policies could also put U.S. journalists in harm's way while they are reporting overseas, "even more than they are now," Mr. McMasters said.
"There is already the perception among some abroad that American journalists are instruments of American foreign policy, in league with government agencies," he said, pointing to the kidnapping of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in Pakistan as an example.
The proposal has not been finalized, sources in the Pentagon and State Department said. Nor has the idea of deliberately misinforming media outlets been submitted to U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld for approval.
Mr. Rumsfeld, who has become something of a media darling in his Pentagon press briefings, promised reporters after the Sept. 11 attacks that he would never lie to them.
"The mission is being carefully reviewed by the Pentagon," Defence Department spokesman Bryan Whitman said yesterday. "We're trying to make clear distinctions on the appropriateness of who does what when it comes to effective communications."
But although there was little detailed information about the new office available to the media, an official confirmed that its activities could include "black" disinformation, which the Times said could include false reports e-mailed to foreign journalists, government officials and civic leaders.
"The return address will probably be a dot.com, not a dot.mil," the official was quoted as saying. Another way could be to contract publicity firms to promote the stories, without revealing their source.
The Central Intelligence Agency has long used covert disinformation campaigns in unfriendly countries. However, those operations require presidential approval and may not target U.S. citizens.
But critics said false information sent to foreign outlets will doubtless filter back to the United States.
"Anything they spread overseas will come back here, because information travels so quickly. . . . Our own population will then hear it and believe it," said Shibley Telhami, Middle East expert at Washington's Brookings Institution. "It will affect our decisions, and I see that as a tremendous danger."
The U.S. government worries it is losing public support overseas, especially among Muslims who believe the United States is hostile toward Islam.
"This is a battle for minds," deputy defence secretary Paul Wolfowitz said yesterday in a speech to U.S. defence contractors. "Our victory on the ground in Afghanistan has already changed substantially how this conflict is perceived, even in the Muslim world."
Mr. Wolfowitz did not comment directly on the proposed new campaign.
During the Second World War, the United States and other allied governments had great success in spreading disinformation that hampered the German war effort, in particular convincing Hitler that the D-Day landings would occur at Calais, not Normandy.
Makes you wonder if we are getting the truth about anything. They claim this has not been approved but is that just put out as dis-information about this department.
-------------------- "and none of your usual boobery." M. Burns
Registered: Oct 2001
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
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posted
"Why Albania?" "Why not?" "What have they done to us?" "What have they done FOR us? What do you know about them?" "Nothing." "See? They keep to themselves. Shifty. Untrustable."
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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Lying to the enemy = smart. Lying to the neutral = irrelevant. Lying to fair-weather friends who are just as likely to report everything you say to the enemy = smart. Lying to your friends, while the enemy might be listening = conditionally smart. Lying to your staunch supporters (if there were any) = not too smart... but we'd probably let the governments of our staunch supporters in on the falsity anyway, that's smart.
Leading Al Quaida, their friends, supporters, allies, and apologists into traps, then blowing them off the surface of the Earth... = Priceless.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well, since Rob seems to have missed the point that the government's "disinformation" scheme is targeted at everybody (up to and including him), I can now say that Robert's whining about a "powerful government" is all hipocracy. He's willing to let the government, that under Bush and Ashcroft have taken away more freedom then any in recent memory, lie to the U.S. people. And he's willing to defend it. And the next time he says he's against Big Government, you remember his defense of it in this thread. And you laugh at him.
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
FOT seems quite happy to be lied to by his gov., strange. You do understand that this lying extends to the info we get about the prisoners they have, the reasons for going into Iraq(reminiscent of the Gulf War babies incident)or any other country they decide. If this was a democratic government you would be all over this, but it is OK for the republicans to lie to you?
-------------------- "and none of your usual boobery." M. Burns
Registered: Oct 2001
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He got his "secret police" on the airplane, to label any man he deem "suspicious" and raise hell on them, no sir, no more "innocent until proven guilty". Man, just a while ago, some guy wanna go to washroom 30 mins before the airplane lands. Dude was told not to by one of them police guy, but understably, he needed to go, so he went anyway. After he got out of the washroom, he was cuffed, and all the passengers on the airplane are asked to put their hands above their head or else until the plane landed. Washroom dude was later on threw into brig for questioning.
What kind of a fucking justice is that?
Bush also got his military all spread all around the world, for the purpose of so called fighting "terrorism". Fuck that, it's more like forceing other nations to do what he wants done under the gun. Hell, he's got the perfect excuse too, "We're just doing what we can to fight terrorism, all is necessary to fight terrorism."
Now he's planning on using propaganda with false information.
I'm tired of Bush using terrorism as an excuse to make the world into a police state.
It's a good thing that at least some politician are smart enough to come up with the "Sunset cluase".
-------------------- "George Washington said, 'I cannot tell a lie.' Richard Nixon said, 'I cannot tell the truth.' Bill Clinton said, 'I cannot tell the difference.'"
-- comedian TOM SMOTHERS, from his latest stage act with brother DICK SMOTHERS.
Registered: Jan 2000
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1) The activities cited in the article are not permitted DOD activities per authorizing statutes. They fall outside the permitted limits of military information warfare. Those not consumed with paranoid delusion will realize the press got the story wrong - again.
2) Other agencies do perform some types of operation similar to those described in this fiction. DOD does not want those duties, nor has DOD ever shown any particular skill at anything along these lines.
3) Anyone with half an insight into reality would realize that you couldn't perform the supposed mission by merely opening an office in the DOD. Implementation takes specialized deep cover people, units and training. None of which exist or are planned or are even useful in fulfilling DOD's mission.
4)The evil mysterious office in the bowels of the Pentagon which exercises dark control over the world's collective mind is an episode in the X Files. Adults should not confuse this with reality.
The only true aspect to this story is the interesting sidelight that it has given the terminally paranoid an excuse to panic and scream abuse at the government.
[ February 20, 2002, 16:08: Message edited by: First of Two ]
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Man, just a while ago, some guy wanna go to washroom 30 mins before the airplane lands. Dude was told not to by one of them police guy, but understably, he needed to go, so he went anyway. After he got out of the washroom, he was cuffed, and all the passengers on the airplane are asked to put their hands above their head or else until the plane landed. Washroom dude was later on threw into brig for questioning.
You got a source for this, or are we in Urban Legend land again?
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
That happened, but he never got to the washroom. He was instructed to sit down, when he didn't, he was placed under arrest and the passengers on the airline were told to keep their hands over theirs heads until the plane landed.
quote:Those not consumed with paranoid delusion will realize the press got the story wrong - again.
Nice try at diversion, Rob. We all know the law stops the government. At least, thats what you've been ranting about until very recently.
quote:The evil mysterious office in the bowels of the Pentagon which exercises dark control over the world's collective mind is an episode in the X Files.
This from the guy who has convinced himself he's going to be world dictator some day.
quote:The only true aspect to this story is the interesting sidelight that it has given the terminally paranoid an excuse to panic and scream abuse at the government.
Try and get a nationalized health care? Rob says its an infringement on freedom. Get angry when the government abuses its trust in the name of "war on terror", Rob says you're paranoid. Anyone else notice a big flaw with what is going on in Rob's brain?
Registered: Sep 2000
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quote: That happened, but he never got to the washroom. He was instructed to sit down, when he didn't, he was placed under arrest and the passengers on the airline were told to keep their hands over theirs heads until the plane landed.
Source, or U.L. Dubiousness quotient: Where did the cops on the plane (who arrested him) come from... we haven't re-instituted air marshals yet, to my knowledge.
quote:This from the guy who has convinced himself he's going to be world dictator some day.
All those who actually believe anything I post relating to my dictatorship (of the USA, not WORLD, at least get your facts straight, can't you?) is at ALL serious (aside from the fact that I think it would be a good idea), please raise your hands, evolution is looking for stupid people to deselect.
Convinced myself? Your grasp of reality is more tenuous than I feared.
quote:Get angry when the government abuses its trust in the name of "war on terror", Rob says you're paranoid.
No, I said it wasn't true, and I posted reasons why #'s 1-3, which you carefully ignored in order to post your personal attack... again.
Oh, there may have been some statements about people who believed that garbage being 'paranoid,' and perhaps that's the wrong word... 'gullible, unquestioning media zombies' might have been more apt.
So are you going to argue the argument, or are you going to resort to further name-calling?
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well FoT reading that artcle does not clear the issue up at all. So the government is telling you that the government agency that they haven't set up yet but are going to set up is not going to lie to you. It gets even confusing to write.
quote:Implementation takes specialized deep cover people, units and training
Or a degree in advertising, how hard do you think it is to send out false news reports. And as for just setting up an office, that and money is all you need to put a hoax on. And this department seems to have a budget of millions, and governments have been known to lie to get sympathy on their side. http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p243_Weber.html
I know you think that the republicans are the greatest thing since sliced bread, but FOT they lie to you the same as any politician will.
-------------------- "and none of your usual boobery." M. Burns
Registered: Oct 2001
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Note several differences between this and the 'poor guy' way in which the story was reported here.
quote:Bizarro was on a Delta flight from Los Angeles on Saturday when he allegedly left his seat 25 minutes before landing, despite two warnings from the captain to the 90 passengers to stay put as required under the 30-minute rule adopted for Salt Lake City by the Federal Aviation Administration
quote:Authorities said a flight attendant instructed Bizarro to return to his seat immediately after he left the bathroom. She said Bizarro, who is 6-foot-2 and 220 pounds, ignored her orders and stared at her for about a minute before returning to his seat, according to the FBI (news - web sites).
The incident was seen by two of three undercover air marshals on board, the FBI said. One of the agents said he saw Bizarro give what appeared to be a "thumbs up" to another passenger as he returned to his seat, prompting the marshals to take control of the cabin.
The Salt Lake City rule requiring no passenger movement during the last 30 minutes went into effect Feb. 5. It already had been in effect for flights to Reagan International Airport in Washington.
He knowingly broke the rules (I could have held it for thirty damn minutes), glowered at a waitress silently (oh, no, that's not at ALL suspicious behavior), and gloated about it.
So, er... tough for him. I've always disliked people who used their size and intimidation to get their way, and now one of 'em pays dearly for it. I couldn't be happier.
"Thumbs up" is not only a 'ok' signal, it's a 'victory' and an 'all clear' and a 'go' signal, too. Given the climate and his other suspicious behavior...
[ February 20, 2002, 18:47: Message edited by: First of Two ]
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:we haven't re-instituted air marshals yet, to my knowledge.
Apparently we have. Wow! Rob is in the dark!
quote:So are you going to argue the argument, or are you going to resort to further name-calling?
It's not name calling. It's identifying what traits you have and calling you on them. Paranoia, hyopcracy, stupidity, irrationality.
quote:Anyone with half an insight into reality would realize that you couldn't perform the supposed mission by merely opening an office in the DOD. Implementation takes specialized deep cover people, units and training. None of which exist or are planned or are even useful in fulfilling DOD's mission.
As Grocka pointed out, a degree in advertising would be enough.
quote:Other agencies do perform some types of operation similar to those described in this fiction. DOD does not want those duties, nor has DOD ever shown any particular skill at anything along these lines.
Oh, so the government has been lying to people for a long time? And you support this?
quote:The activities cited in the article are not permitted DOD activities per authorizing statutes. They fall outside the permitted limits of military information warfare. Those not consumed with paranoid delusion will realize the press got the story wrong - again.
Those not consumed with complete reasoning failure would've realized some time ago that George W. Bush, John Ashcroft and many others are using 9/11 to remove their personal freedoms.
Those same people, consumed with paranoid delusions about a "liberal media", who also yell that the government can't be trusted, might want to realize they're trusting the government that is coming right out and saying its lying to them. Obviously, these few idiots are beyond reason and will continue their insane delusions and hopefully not hurt anyone in the process.
quote:Note several differences between this and the 'poor guy' way in which the story was reported here.
Rob, see? You're a bafoon. How was it reported in a 'poor guy' way? You make stuff up to fit "your" way of looking at things even when reality doesn't support you.
See, this is the basic problem with you. National Health Care? EVIL! Take away civil liberties? GOOD! You Republicans are an odd bunch of fools.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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