-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
posted
I didn't remember that the scout ship in "Friday's Child" was actually visible. Great that there is "Neutral Zone" for such special cases. As for the civilian ship, I simply forgot to include it, it's another Merchantman reuse.
-------------------- Bernd Schneider
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
I checked the episode "Once More Unto the Breach". It's definitely Slivin (SLEE-vin) in the aired dialogue. Can't possibly confuse it with Kevin or Hevin.
If you're gonna be using the Merchantman, ILM's ship charts for Star Trek III have established a size of 220 feet or 67 meters. I noticed you didn't have that note in your pages.
posted
Phelps: I included most of your names, some of which are in the Encycopedia too. I took most of them from the ST Archive and assumed that this list would use the same spellings as in the Ency which it didn't in several cases.
Three new ships are up too, including the "Endgame" Negh'Var which is (to my surprise) a Negh'Var with both the weapons pods and the spikes and therefore definitely a third variant. The pod seems to be the same as on the standard Negh'Var.
Okay, you should at least make note of the TAS ship if you're determined not to use it. You could mention it in the annotations and link to an image.
And, now that I think about it, aren't ALL the TNG BoP's supposed to be K'vorts? Even if not explicitly stated, I think the Encyclopedia says which are what.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
As far as the big BoPs -- any big BoPs -- are concerned: in the ideal world, they would've been new ship models, and I suggest we treat them as such. Period. The writers of "Yesterday's Enterprise" wanted merely the first BoP seen in the show to be a BoP, while the fighting ships at the end were to be "K'vort class battlecruisers". They got the BoP for both shots. Similarily, the ship in "A Matter of Honor" wasn't specified as a BoP in writers' directions, but that's what they got.
The writers did ask for the BoP in "The Defector", "Reunion" and "Redemption". It seems they had learned the reality of their budget by that time. Fortunately, they got the Vor'cha soon enough to avoid more scaling problems, which unfortunately did persist because the VFX crews got used to scaling the BoPs higher next to the Ent-D.
Mike Okuda fixed the problem in his way, which as Bernd describes is not completely true to the show. The K'vort/B'rel explanation never really caught hold among the writers, the effects crews, and even Mike Okuda, who didn't bother to figure out the sizes for the ships and instead scaled both at 110m in the Encyclopedia. The reality is that the writers and the characters usually talk about a generic BoP in the scripts, and the Effects crews think of the BoP as a 110m ship whose size can be changed for dramaturgic reasons. The only reason we saw big ships in TNG was that the Klingons needed something visually comparable to the Ent-D, and couldn't get a new model initially. Hence, the size of the BoP goes up from 110m. In DS9, we had the Vor'chas, and no big ships to show next to the BoP -- hence no reason to deviate from the 110m baseline, or a reason to show them at less than 110m from time to time. But the assumed size is still 110m.
The big BoP period had best be forgotten. Some of the ships can be subsumed into the 110m range, for others we'd have to postulate short-lived experimental designs that only looked like a BoP. This is the apparent consensus among the people producing Star Trek. It's not the consensus among most of fandom, but that's because most of fandom is aware of only Okuda's work. They don't talk to David Stipes or Ron D. Moore.
posted
What about all those TOS ships in episodes where Klingons were featured but their ship's weren't like in "Errand of Mercy" and "Friday's Child"
I don't think we saw those ships but there might have been a named dropped.
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
posted
Thankyou, all for not getting too stroppy with me about bringing up the BOP lengths... I eventually got to Bernd's page on the topic - it is very comprehensive!
There has to be at least 2 BOP sizes - you cannot deny the huge-arsed bops in The Defector - if nothing else.
There is another Klingon ship... the wierd ship seen in "Rules of Engagement" - I wish I had a video cap card - cause that is one ship I have NEVER EVER found GOOD clear vid caps for on the 'net. That and the Centaur... and if someone posts links to those centaur pics that are all washed out and grey - and you can't see any detail and when you try to fix up the brightness/contrast/gammacorrection all there is are coloured lines or more grey - I'm gonna scream! ;o)
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
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