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Author Topic: TNG in HD
o2
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I’m pretty sure that some of you guys have already heard about the rumors regarding TNG on Blu Ray and according to the people from thedigitalbits is a first disc coming around end of this year.

Nothing concrete is known right now and there is going on some speculation what CBS will do with TNG. Rumors spreading from ‘complete new F/X ala TOS-R’ to ‘simple upscaling’.

I personally think that CBS will use the available 35mm film from both live action and effect shots for the Blu-Ray release, even if this means that they have to re-edit the complete series again. Regarding this topic I found a very interesting article here.

http://www.dvdtown.com/messageboard/topic/8274/3/0

I was curious what the result would be and I recalled a fact that I heard a few years ago: That there is a scene in ‘Generations’ where they used the original film negative from the TNG series. I believe that this scene was mentioned (picture only in SD)

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/generations/ch9/gen0490.jpg

and I took the liberty to compare this shot to the one from Season one.

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x03/nakednow156.jpg

I think this would be marvelous update in picture quality and I’m eager to look what this would mean for TNG.

This boost in picture quality would – without a doubt – help to solve some problems with starship regs we have. For example, we would be finally able to read the reg on the USS Biko.

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s6/6x08/afistfulofdatas334.jpg

But on the other hand, I’m afraid that this would also lead to a complete new set of problems, considering the re-use of the USS Hood shots throughout the series.

What do you think, do we need / do we want TNG on Blu-Ray?

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Dukhat
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Let me clarify a few misconceptions with your post.

1. From what I've heard, the "first disk coming around the end of this year" is simply a test disk with four episodes chosen for whatever attributes they might have for the HD process (i.e. VFX-heavy eps, etc.). And I have no idea if it's coming at the end of the year or not.

2. If TNG-HD happens at all, every VFX shot will most likely be replaced with updated effects. This includes model shots, space shots, phaser/transporter/etc. effects, even effects in normal scenes such as computer displays, beams fired from hand phasers/disruptors, etc. This will be a nightmare to remaster, which is why it hasn't been done yet.

3. That link from dvdtown is three years old. At the time, the OP seemed to think remastering TNG would be "easy." Obviously he was wrong.

4. The registry of the Biko is the same registry as the Cochrane from "The Drumhead," since it's the same shot reused, but with a planet in the background instead.

5. Because of time constraints, don't be surprised to see one or two new shots of a CGI Enterprise-D alongside a CGI Excelsior being reused in every shot just like it was originally done with the models.

[ August 15, 2011, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Dukhat ]

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MinutiaeMan
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6. I remember reading somewhere that TNG was shot on film but edited directly on video. So not only would they have to convert every effects scene, but they'd also have to re-edit the entire episode to put it in HD.

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Mars Needs Women
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Him I feeling Paramount might be overreaching here. I remember reading on Trek Movie that remastering all of TNG would be difficult because of the format the show was filmed in. TOS was apparently easier to update. I have a feeling a total HD upgrade of all episodes won't happen anytime soon.
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Josh
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If memory serves, some 35mm TNG footage was transfered digitally to be reused in composite shots for the Enterprise finale, and it only looked superficially better.

Further more, while some shows like Stargate that shot in 35m had the foresight to accommodate the 16:9 aspect ratio even though they were for 4:3 (initially) broadcast, there is no guarantee that a show filmed in 1987 would. I'd wager there's crew and equipment standing just outside of the regular frame.

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MinutiaeMan
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quote:
Originally posted by Josh:
Further more, while some shows like Stargate that shot in 35m had the foresight to accommodate the 16:9 aspect ratio even though they were for 4:3 (initially) broadcast, there is no guarantee that a show filmed in 1987 would.

Why does it have to be converted to 16:9? They didn't do that for TOS.
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o2
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quote:
Originally posted by Dukhat:
1. From what I've heard, the "first disk coming around the end of this year" is simply a test disk with four episodes chosen for whatever attributes they might have for the HD process (i.e. VFX-heavy eps, etc.). And I have no idea if it's coming at the end of the year or not.

You are right, the first disc is only for test purposed, mayby similar to this HD-DVD sample disc they produced three or four years ago. I'm pretty sure that this test disc will not be VFX-heavy out of budget reasons.

2. If TNG-HD happens at all, every VFX shot will most likely be replaced with updated effects. This includes model shots, space shots, phaser/transporter/etc. effects, even effects in normal scenes such as computer displays, beams fired from hand phasers/disruptors, etc. This will be a nightmare to remaster, which is why it hasn't been done yet.

My point is: They don't have to do all the space shots again, because they are already available in goog quality. Regarding the laser beams, etc. this has to be done again.

3. That link from dvdtown is three years old. At the time, the OP seemed to think remastering TNG would be "easy." Obviously he was wrong.

Time will see...

4. The registry of the Biko is the same registry as the Cochrane from "The Drumhead," since it's the same shot reused, but with a planet in the background instead.

Where is this name 'Cochrane' comming from? It was not mentioned on the any episode. But yes, it is the same shoot. Would be nice to see the reg finally clear and crisp.

5. Because of time constraints, don't be surprised to see one or two new shots of a CGI Enterprise-D alongside a CGI Excelsior being reused in every shot just like it was originally done with the models.

Until the official announcement of CBS we can only speculate if they use CGI or remaster the original film material.



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Johnny
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I wonder if the DVD will be on general sale, or only for in-house use. IIRC Trekmovie had a list of the four episodes and it looked like they were picked based on the range of effects and editing that might need to be reworked, rather than being a list of "fan favourites", for instance.

When it comes to CG recreations of what was originally physical model work, there are some very well made fan attempts*, so I'm sure whatever CBS made would be adequate, but it would be a pity to have such good model work replaced when it's not even that old. It's not like we're talking about rocket ships on wire. The only real improvement that CG animation will add besides having a clearer pictures is that the ships will actually be animated, rather sitting still as their opponents' torpedoes inexplicably miss them.

* http://www.youtube.com/user/VideoSpaceFX#p/u/14/LTYAGsTjYH8

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Dukhat
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quote:
Originally posted by o2:

I'm pretty sure that this test disc will not be VFX-heavy out of budget reasons.

Why? The whole point of the test would be to determine if the HD upconversion and updated VFX effects are worth doing.

quote:
My point is: They don't have to do all the space shots again, because they are already available in good quality. Regarding the laser beams, etc. this has to be done again.
But they're not "good quality." You and the OP of that three-year-old article seem to think that HD will make all those original space shots clear, crisp, and beautiful. It won't. As with any VFX scene in TNG, it will make them look like crap. Matte lines will be even more visible than ever, and all other VFX oddities that were fine for a SD broadcast on old 13-inch tube TV's will look horrendous on a 65-inch plasma HDTV. That's why the VFX shots were all redone in TOS-R.

quote:
Where is this name 'Cochrane' comming from? It was not mentioned on the any episode.
The Cochrane was the name of that Oberth class ship in "The Drumhead," per the ST Encyclopedia. No, it wasn't mentioned onscreen, and no, I have no idea if the model was labeled as such, but it definitely has the same registry as what's listed in the Encyclopedia. Besides "A Fistful of Datas," the scene was also reused in "The Game."

quote:
Until the official announcement of CBS we can only speculate if they use CGI or remaster the original film material.
Or if this even happens at all.

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"A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop

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Dukhat
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double post

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"A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop

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o2
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My starting point was that this scene from Generations

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/generations/ch9/gen0490.jpg

was done from the same source material as this one:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x03/nakednow156.jpg

If you watch closely you can see that the lighted window arrangement is the same. I also have the picture from Generations in HD and it is clear and crisp (shame flare upload is not working...).

Therefore: If my assumption is right and they will remasterd TNG in that way then the quality would be great!

Regarding the USS Cochrane: If the ship from 'A fistful of Datas is the same as the one from 'The Drumhead' (and both have the same visible reg) and we know that the first one is the USS Biko than the letter on has to be the USS Biko as well and not the USS Cochrane. I guess the Encyclopedia is wrong in this particular detail.

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The Mighty Monkey of Mim
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Okuda is presumably the one who made the labels, so if he says the name on it was Cochrane I believe him even if we can only see the registry from the angle shown. That name and number combination also appeared on the casualties list from "In The Pale Moonlight" and IIRC a few other DS9 episodes, so it's confirmed elsewhere in canon.

And obviously the reuse of stock footage is not meant to imply that it's the same ship every time. (I don't even think you can reliably infer that from new footage shot of a model without changing the labeling.) The model was labeled as the Cochrane for "The Drumhead" and that footage was later reused to represent other vessels such as the Biko.

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Fabrux
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quote:
Originally posted by o2:
shame flare upload is not working..

But it is.

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Charles Capps
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And if it isn't, http://imgur.com/
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o2
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quote:
Originally posted by Fabrux:
quote:
Originally posted by o2:
shame flare upload is not working..

But it is.
Between my 75 Posts and the required 250 lies a problem.
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