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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Star Trek » Starships & Technology » Wolf 359 - the next round (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Wolf 359 - the next round
Bernd
Guy from Old Europe
Member # 6

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This started a few weeks ago when Mark Delgado contacted me and showed me the well-known shot of the vertical ship at Wolf 359 which most of us thought it was the Excelsior study model. He pointed me to the saucer rear end, and there it was: the Bussard collector of the *third* nacelle.

I would be interesting in getting your votes. Niagara/three-nacelled ship or Excelsior study model? Isn't there a possibility to include a poll box into the Forum?

We discussed a few more things and I also got suggestions from other people. This is the preliminary result: http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/articles/wolf359.htm

I hope we will be able to identify the rest of the ships too.

BTW, I borrowed some shots that are probably from your site, Frank. I still have to find out which ones.

If someone has more or more clear screen shots, I would be glad to use them (credit granted, of course).

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"A few more calculations"


Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Aethelwer
Frank G
Member # 36

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These are the images from my site:
http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/articles/wolf359/phaseiistudy2-model1.jpg http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/articles/wolf359/phaseiistudy2-screen1.jpg http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/articles/wolf359/excelsiorstudy1-model1.jpg http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/articles/wolf359/excelsiorstudy1-screen1.jpg http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/articles/wolf359/excelsiorstudy2-model1.jpg http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/articles/wolf359/niagara-screen3.jpg http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/articles/wolf359/rigel-screen1.jpg

Actually, I can send you different versions of these for you to use. If you check Sternbach's group, you'll notice that there was a bit of a problem with people not realising that those images were from my page...

Either way, I'm pretty sure that what looks like a nacelle is actually part of the secondary hull, but looks that way due to the shadows of the nacelle pylons. What looks like the bussard collectors is probably that back part of the saucer. It is an interesting case, though.

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Frank's Home Page
"We're going to take a five minute break...we'll be back in twenty minutes." - John Linnell


Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Bernd
Guy from Old Europe
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You'll be credited in no time.

Actually, I have received most of the images by e-mail. I have put them on a preliminary page for internal use, until I was able to complete the page and check the origin of the images.

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"A few more calculations"


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The359
The bitch is back
Member # 37

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hmm, looks like you got the Niagara right on the head. Except, in both views, the nacelles look like they are all on the top of the hull, instead of 2 below the hull (or the other way around).

As for the 4 nacelled ship, in Unification II, I think that's actually any Oberth with the saucer ripped off. The back of the nacelles is black, which looks like the grating on the Oberth's nacelles. It also looks like the front of the saucer has been ripped off, but most of the saucer can still be seen intact. Below the right nacelles you can barely make out the Oberth's slim engineering hull.

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"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey


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Aethelwer
Frank G
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Thanks to Bernd's page, I got a great image of the aft part of the quad-nacelled ship. Judging by the size of the secondary hull, it's probably not a Cheyenne.

Also, here's an interesting image from the Qualor 2 scenes...in the upper right we have a T'Pau-type ship (which I consider to be the Apollo), and in the upper left is...an Excelsior? Study model? Dunno.

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"We're going to take a five minute break...we'll be back in twenty minutes." - John Linnell


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Justin_Timberland
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I've always thought that unknown wreckage with the Galaxy nacelle next to is was a Nebula Class. I still think it's a Nebula Class to this second. Anyway, does anyone think that the sturdy models used for the graveyard scenes are somewhere in a storage locker in Paramount Studios?

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Sometimes I hide
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Treat you right, be with you day and night
Baby all I need is time

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Michael Dracon
aka: NightWing or Altair
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Is it me, or does that quad-nacelled ship look a lot like the Prometheus??

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)


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Timo
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I'm voting for the vertical ship NOT to be an Excelsior study model. I definitely see the third nacelle now. As for it being an upside-down Fact Files "Niagara"... No way.

But of interest is that the center nacelle seems to only barely obscure the nearly cylindrar secondary hull, suggesting the latter indeed is based on the Constitution model kit secondary hull, the only such narrow component available without customizing. Perhaps what we are seeing is the real Rigel? The third nacelle would be in the wrong place: this ship cannot be upside down unless the saucer is "centered" on the Constitution hull (which I think would look too silly) instead of "resting atop" the hull (which would make it the only Starfleet ship to have such a configuration). But perhaps the reports on nacelle placement were wrong?

In the end, I'm all for calling the "badly damaged Galaxy saucer in flames" a Rigel, as people have generally done so far. Instead of tiny nacelles, I see "de-nacelled" pylons there. This ship is my leading candidate for the origins of FF "Niagara", even though the FF got all the details wrong.

I was extremely intrigued to learn Ed Miarecki takes credit for USS Chekov. Apparently, all the known BoBW ship classes did exist in model form after all!

BTW, Bernd, have you asked Miarecki or Okuda directly to comment on your page? In an old conversation, Okuda once asked me if I'd learned anything new about the origins of the FF "Niagara", and I thought this would be a good time to reply. So I pointed him to your page...

Timo Saloniemi


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Aethelwer
Frank G
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Does anyone have BoBW or Unification on tape? If so, take a look at the actual scene with the Excelsior study model/potential Niagara. If there's a nacelle there, it would need to be flat and attached directly to the hull somehow.

BTW, Miarecki has an email address...has anyone emailed him about the models? If not, we should have someone send a short message (emphasis on short) asking him if he remembers anything about them.

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Frank's Home Page
"We're going to take a five minute break...we'll be back in twenty minutes." - John Linnell


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Bernd
Guy from Old Europe
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Frank: I guess the nacelle is relatively close to the hull. IIRC the camera position isn't moving very much in the scene, so I wouldn't expect to see a 3D movement.

I have a sequence of the scene which doesn't show so much change: http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/articles/wolf359/niagara-chris.jpg
I might ask Chris if he can also capture the very beginning and very end when the vertical ship is visible.

BTW, is it only my impression or is what I think is the Bussard collector more off the center than on Frank's screencap?

BTW, I just noticed that these two ships could be the same: http://w1.314.telia.com/~u31412332/bilder/qualor2a.jpg http://w1.314.telia.com/~u31412332/new/newground.jpg

(from Thomas's website)

The second image is the soliton wave rider.

Timo: Chris was in contact with Miarecki and Okuda, and he got some answers, but I can't exactly tell who said what. Perhaps I may get exact quotes for the next update.

The most interesting thing would be to learn how the Springfield looks. Miarecki should know.

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"A few more calculations"


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Starship Freak
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Nice pic from Qualor 2, Frank. Wouldn´t happen to have more? My screencaps from that scene are generally poor. My snappy isn´t functioning to good :-(
BTW, I emailed Miarecki and got an answer today about the springfield-model. He doesn´t have any pics of the model :-(

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"The Starships of the Federation are the physical, tangible manifestations of Humanity´s stubborn insistence that life does indeed mean something."
Spock to Leonard McCoy in "Final Frontier"


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Dat
Huh?
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If there are no pics of the Springfield/Chekov, is there at least a description of it, so we can try to look for and identify it?

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Dilbert: "Then how do I turn you off?"
7: "Believe me, I am plenty turned off."


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Aethelwer
Frank G
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I have several images from the episode, actually, although we've seen most in one form or other.

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Frank's Home Page
"We're going to take a five minute break...we'll be back in twenty minutes." - John Linnell


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Aethelwer
Frank G
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Is it me, or are this ship and this ship one and the same? The detail seems to match, especially with the dark panel attached to the back of the saucer.

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Frank's Home Page
"We're going to take a five minute break...we'll be back in twenty minutes." - John Linnell


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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
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Actually, Frank, I was thinking the same thing. However, and you may think this is crazy, I think the "Unification" 4-nacelle ship also looks like that Ex. study model. Ignore for the moment the extra nacelle(s). Look at how the secondary hull seems to come straight back off the saucer. It sort of looks like it might be the ESM2 flipped upside-down. But, as for where the extra nacelles come from, I don't know.

And, regarding the Challenger on Bernd's page... In a decision between the Chal. and the ESM2, I would definitely have to go w/ the Chal. The nacelles are way too close together for it to be the ESM. Of course, itcould be something completely different, too. But I do think that the evidence is strong enough to make it the Challenger.

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Lisa: "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."
Bart: "Not if you called them 'stench blossoms'..."
-The Simpsons


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