posted
Bernd: Um, this may be a bit of a stretch, but, would it be possible to include the date on your pictures, so that we don't have to sweep through every filerow to see what's new? Since you can't add the newer pictures at the bottom, maybe filedates could be a good idea?
posted
Or then new pictures would emerge from a bright animated warp flash that takes sixteen isominutes to load and requires, you guessed it, Flash. Pictures of medium ripeness would have an impulse trail, while old ones would simply be sitting still or at most puttering about on tiny thruster flames.
Personally, I'm happy with the current arrangement. What better pastime than memorizing what is already in the Gallery and then scrolling through all the great pagefuls of cool pictures to spot the additions? In fact, Bernd could remove the "updated" banners from the sub-categories to make this even more challenging...
Anything new on the higher-quality original of the Challenger photo?
(well, they where mentioned awhile ago, but I don�t remember what was said, so I thought I might ask again)
What are these ships? The first one doesn�t even look starfleetish...
------------------ "The Starships of the Federation are the physical, tangible manifestations of Humanity�s stubborn insistence that life does indeed mean something." Spock to Leonard McCoy in "Final Frontier"
posted
The first ship looks like an unholy mess, IMHO. Well, so does the second one. If not for the timeframe, I'd almost suggest the first one is a Steamrunner seen from astern...
It seems likely that some models were filmed multiple times for the episode. These badly damaged ships could be reused shots with added flame effects, or then custom shots from already-used models, with either just the added flame effects or then with extra physical damage incurred on the models themselves.
We know that one of the ships definitely survived the battle more intact than those pics - the Chekov could not have been on its way to Koenig's bookshelf if it was in that condition! We can also be sure that no Ambassador or later scale models were harmed in the production of the episode, since they did not exist at the time, and the full-scale photographic Ambassador, Galaxy, Miranda and Excelsior or old Oberth models definitely weren't harmed for this. Everything else is free game, though.
Okay, some speculation on the pics:
The first ship seems to be viewed from aft - the bright linear structure atop must be a nacelle, and so far there have been no ships where the nacelles ride in front of the hull. The pylon mount seems to be in mid-pylon, and triangular or at least angled. The nacelle seems to be above the saucer (if that's what is on the right), while another nacelle is burning on the foreground. A very wide secondary hull is visible below the nacelle - or then there are extra nacelles down there.
My first guess would be a flipped Niagara with flame effects (the starboard nacelle is the one that is seen to upper port here). The saucer seems to have a terraced superstructure that might fit the Niagara saucertop. It's not a very good fit, though - the ventral nacelle should protrude aft and be visible here.
My second guess is that this is a proto-Nebula (either the destroyed one or the intact one with flame effects), and the "wide secondary hull" looks so wide because we are seeing extra nacelles. The ship might be upside down so that the bright nacelle is the starboard lower one - the glowing thing immediately below it would be the secondary hull - and the dark "pylon" shadow is just cast across the secondary hull even though the pylon itself goes behind this hull. However, the nacelle looks way too long (especially if it is the damaged nacelle of the destroyed model) and the secondary hull too short. And the saucer detail would not match.
This doesn't seem like any of the known other ships, though. If the thing to the right really is a saucer, and the long linear thing a nacelle, then a relatively short and broad configuration is suggested, with an extra-wide secondary hull. Most of the Excelsior variants have very narrow aft hulls, and most of the other ships have radically different configurations.
The second ship no longer exists. May she rest in that heap of pieces.
posted
About the first ship, the wide secondary hull rather reminds me of the New Orleans-class. The second almost looks like a rear view of the saucer of an Excelsior.
------------------ "The Starships of the Federation are the physical, tangible manifestations of Humanity�s stubborn insistence that life does indeed mean something." Spock to Leonard McCoy in "Final Frontier"
posted
Yeah, the first ship could indeed be a New Orleans - the glare on the port nacelle would mask the fact that the aft half of it is heavily damaged. The pylon shadow looks a bit weird but not impossibly so. The starboard nacelle in flames should probably have been treated with another round of sledgehammering if it was that much off axis. But as said, it's not impossible that some of the models received extra damage after their use in the initial shots.
There aren't clear indications of the dorsal torpedo pods here, but there mightn't necessarily be even if the pods were there. And perhaps the pods of the NO model weren't used in every shot?
Also within possibility is that this is the Excelsior study model with Oberthlike nacelles but otherwise almost-final hull shape. The top linear glare would then consist partially of the rather short nacelle, partially of saucer rim glare. That doesn't seem as attractive as the New Orleans interpretation, though. There aren't that many frames of this ship to go by, so it's difficult to say for sure whether the light reflections depict true hull contours or coincidentally and confusingly blend together.
posted
Any chance we can get a side pic of the ship?
------------------ "Oh for fuck's sake, stop your moaning, If you fancy a threesome at this time of night, you can't get start getting choosey about which particular three! -Queer As Folk, UK
posted
I�m sorry, both those pics are the only ones available.
------------------ "The Starships of the Federation are the physical, tangible manifestations of Humanity�s stubborn insistence that life does indeed mean something." Spock to Leonard McCoy in "Final Frontier"
posted
That page is really big... and its hard when you don't know what is new... for discussion purposes... can someone put the links to the pics here - and I'll make my way through the page later...
Thanks,
Andrew
------------------ "Yar, a lesbian? That girl had a sex drive! First, Data in Naked Now, then, in Hide and Q, she hits on Picard! "Oh, if only you weren't the captain..." God! If Denise Crosby hadn't left the series, she'd've slept with the entire senior staff by now!" Jeff Kardde - March 7, 2001
quote:Just out of curiosity, where the heck has that image been hiding all these years? I mean, we spend 11 pages talking about this and then, oh, by the way, we've got a pretty good shot of one of the models that no one has seen before, if you're interested.
I think that it was simply a lack of people with a large enough interest in the topic, and very little good information & pics to go on. It wasn't until the research started, first with us five guys, then everyone here, and finally outside info from people like Okuda, Miarecki, Masaki Taniko, and Gary Perry, that good reliable info started coming in.
Also, for the longest time, the former descriptions and fallacies were pretty much taken as undisputed fact: a)The fandom descriptions of the Rigel, Freedom, and Challenger class models, b)The acceptance that either no models were built for the Niagara and Springfield classes (or even the Challenger), or that they were represented by the Excelsior study models, and c)That Rick Sternbach built all the models himself, by shoddily "kit-bashing" parts from Galaxy and Constitution class model parts. The fact that he really didn't build any of them, or just modified a few, attested to the fact that he never had any information regarding the models when asked at conventions, newsgroups, etc.
------------------ Lisa: "Don't you remember the story of Oedipus?" Homer: "Maybe five dollars will refresh my memory." Lisa (angrily): "Oedipus was the story of a man who kills his father and marries his mother!" Homer: "Uggh! Who pays for that wedding?"
posted
I'm getting a 404 error when clicking on page 12 of this. Maybe this will remedy the situation.
------------------ "Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
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posted
This 'little' discussion is about 400 replies! I wonder if this will continue well over a thousand. If that's the case then make this like a topic 'that will never die'
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------------------ Lisa: "Don't you remember the story of Oedipus?" Homer: "Maybe five dollars will refresh my memory." Lisa (angrily): "Oedipus was the story of a man who kills his father and marries his mother!" Homer: "Uggh! Who pays for that wedding?"
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