Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Trial starts in TWO DAYS. 0915, Baltimore County Circuit Court, Towson. Come watch!
My choice is very simple: trial by judge or trial by jury. The pros & cons:
Judge: Only have to convince one person, but verdicts can't be overturned on appeal. Takes less time to get started due to all the players already being there.
Jury: Have to convince 12 people who probably can't even agree on what to have for lunch, but verdicts can be appealed. Extra time for jury selection, which means more time in limbo, & I don't know what to ask potential members.
This all assumes that the prosecutor rejects my idea for a plea bargain, which he probably will. Ideas/opinions?
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Do you have an attorney yet? What was the plea bargain?
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Difficult decision. The main problem with a jury trial in the US it is still possible for the prosecution to basically pick out which jurors they want (out of those selected). And they will always go with the ones most likely to convict. I understand they employ psychologists to help.
On the other hand, you are statistically more likely to be aquitted by a jury (in the UK anyway).
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I really don't know... I have only a little experience with juries -- I got called for jury duty about a year ago, but never even got selected for the selection process!
Does the court require a unanimous decision where you are? I seem to recall that it can vary depending on the case and the charges. I guess it's a mixed bag either way -- if it's a unanimous decision, then some of the jurists may be more likely to vote to convict, just to get out of there quicker. If that's the way things are going in their deliberations, anyway. (And from what I've heard, it seems as if the basic facts -- without explanation, anyway -- don't seem to be in your favor.)
I don't want to sound pessimistic here or try to drive your hopes down, Shik -- I honestly hope things turn out well for you -- but without knowing anything aside from what you've posted here, I'm going to speculate on a trade-off...
In the event of a conviction (which is of course undesirable), who would make the decision on the sentence -- the judge or the jury? How much discretion would they have? Without knowing the conditions of the plea bargain you're looking to make, I can't comment too much... but I might guess that you could potentially have a better chance of a lighter sentence with a judge-only trial? Would there be a possibility of being convicted on lesser charges, instead?
I hope thinks work out, however things go...
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Well, so far the general consensus has been for a judge.
Let me reiterate that my goal is NOT to be acquitted.; my goal is to stay out of jail. My plea bargain idea consists of having one count out of 22 dropped (the solicitation charge) & I plead guilty to the rest. In exchange, I get either no jail time or a suspended sentence, 2 to 5 years probation, & I register as a sex offender. That last part is no big deal, since I'm not a violent predatory offender & so there's no need for community notification (not like I don't tell people ANYway). Finally, I'd want the return of my property to me & hers to her.
That being said...yeah.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Shik, sorry to drag this up again - but just what are a few of the details... isn't it just that your girlfriend was 15 and not 16 when you were seeing each other/seeing each other?
Why has it ended up being dragged through the courts like this? I mean - yeah it's illegal but - it just seem sort of excessive given the sort of people out there who do what they do and nothing is REALLY done about it. Michael Jackson - paid them off... SO obvious after the Bashir interview that he's still doing what he is doing. Woody Allen - his own step daughter!?!
What about those people on Jerry Springer and such shows that come on and admit the types of things that they do... are they arrested and do they have to go to court!?!
Andrew
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
If I recall correctly, Soon Ye was of legal age when she began her affair with Woody Allen. As far as Michael Jackson goes, the case is supposedly still open but the victim hasn't cooperated since the pay-off. The Bashir interviewed seemed to imply that a pedophilic relationship existed between Jackson and one of the boys, but the police can't do anything without evidence and a cooperative witness (which is also the answer to the Jerry Springer scenario). Or, you can just say that celebrities get off easy because of their stature.
Shik, I have nothing to add really except to say good luck. Going either with a judge or a jury has advantages and disadvantages. A judge might be your best bet since you don't have legal counsel.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Based on what you said about the hope for a plea and avoiding jail, I'd say that the trial by judge sounds like a better bet. There's more of a chance for discretion if all the focus is on the judge. Of course, that can be a bad thing if the judge is really strict -- and I don't have any experience on which to offer advice there, but my possibly naive view is that judges, who deal with all sorts of trash and REAL criminals (the violent and aggressive types) every day, may recognize a different situation.
With a jury, you're going to have twelve people randomly called in to decide your fate, people who won't necessarily want to be there and may want to end everything as soon as possible. Also, the very notion of a sex offender is probably going to make them biased, whether it's open or not; and with "ordinary" people they're more likely to just react with extreme prejudice -- which would be worst case scenario for you.
It's a gamble, either way -- and since a judge trial can't be appealed (is it the verdict AND the sentence that can't be appealed? or some leeway in the sentencing process?) there's definitely more risk.
Shik, have you at least gotten some fairly current legal advice? Even if you haven't been able to keep a lawyer on retainer (which is a shitload of money, I know), have you been able to at least ask someone who'd be more knowledgable about it? I'm happy to try to help with the advice here, but as I said, I've got very little perspective on such a situation.
Again, good luck.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Firstly, why exactly do you not have a lawyer?
Weither you choose a trail by Judge (best bet if you have no lawyer)or a jury trial (that will be stocked with overprotective parents)you need to state, for the record that you have no laywer because you cannot afford one and have not been given legal counsel. That'll help in an appeal situation. Possibly overturn a conviction too.
If you had a lawyer you could at least find out the Judge's record of conviction and sentencing in this kind of case.
Best bet: explain that EVERYTHING was consentual and desired by HER and that you made a terrible mistake because you were in love. You are'nt disputing that realtions occured so sympathy is your only option.
I definitely would NOT take any plea that registers you as a sex offender!!! You could just forget any job better that McDonalds -ever- if you do that.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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By law, a minor CANNOT give consent, so Shik can't exactly argue something for which she could not do.
Shik is being charged with what amounts to statatory rape. I believe Shik believes he was in love, but let's face it, this is still a VERY serious crime for which he is facing a VERY real prison sentence with a VERY real probability of jail time.
Shik, I hope you get your plea agreement. As far as judge and jury goes ... first off, as far as the judge goes, in response to MinutaueMan, I don't think he differentiates much between accused rapists and accused murderers. Sure you may not have stuck a gun in a girl's face to get her to take off her pants, but you probably have to convince him that you're aren't a predator using the internet to lure unsuspecting, innocent teenagers to the loss of their virginity (this, in my view, is the biggest problem you face, and probably what the prosecution will argue).
I think you best bet might be appealing to a jury that you actually WERE in love with the girl, and that your motivation was LOVE and not sex. Do you get to cross-examine her? How does she feel about you? Her positive testimony in your defense would most likely help.
posted
If she's going to testify: as a minor, that might not happen. As Shik is not part of the jury selection process and has no lawyer to object to a stacked jury, I'd be very wary of those 12 people. How many have kids themselves? What are their age brackets? If you have a jury of old people and parents of teens, you're boned.
Why a trial at all though? You're not going to debate that intercourse occured so there are no facts to refute and as M.S. pointed out although she was willing she could not legally give consent, it's still statutory rape you're stuck with. Trail will be a chance to show your sencerity for how you felt and that you have a lot of remorse. A jury will still have to (by law) find you guilty of many of the prosecutor's charges (although prahaps not rape)and the final decision on sentencing will still be the judges.
You mentioned already being a "violent youthful offender" and you can bet the prosecutor's going to make a point of that. He'll make you out to be a violent sex-offender even though the two are unrelated.
Fuck, you SO need a criminal lawyer!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I'm curious to know why no public defender...? I believe that every state provides for such. Does Maryland not do that for specific-type cases?
If "Shik" was a "violent youthful offender" and it was before he turned 18, the Prosecution is going to have a very hard time bringing forth any juvenile records. Juvy records are generally sealed and not admissable in court unless there is a particularly violent/nasty thing which occured and is relevant to the case. Even then, most judges aren't going to unseal them for a court case unless it is also particularly nasty.
I'd also be very careful what you talk about here or in any other discussion forums. The Fifth Amendment is there for a reason and anything "said" here would NOT be considered self-purjory, tho would possibly constitute evidence to be entered in for the prosecution. The less said outside the trial room, the better.
Jason: everything goes to trial in the U.S. Even your speeding ticket is basically a "trial" when you send in the money. If you ever get caught speeding or doing some sort of traffic law violation, read the ticket carefully. It should have wording to the effect of: by paying this fine, I plead guilty to the above written somewhere near the signature block that you sign. It's all a part of Due Process.
Registered: Apr 2003
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Who is making the accusations - her or her parents?
How can rape be considered if for instance you were seeing her for a while and you regularly engaged in sex as a couple and never forced her into anything.
What happens to those people who have kids when they are like 12, 13, 14, 15? Are the impregnators charged like this?
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
You could say that you were just a simple Trek Nerd who thought he was lucky to get a girlfriend at ALL!!
You could even wear a uniform and stuff!
And get the computer to recite your record... and have footage appear of your time together from some strange source from a place that is considered forbidden to go to! Then you could be charged as a threat to 'homeland security'! Except that the whole time you were really hiding the truth because your grandfather on your mother's side was Romulan and you were afraid of being punished because of that. At your trial you call up three witnesses from the past and present... Sir Isaac Newton, William Riker and some guy from woodstock. While you are giving testimony - you could have flashbacks to the incident. Don't try to lie or suppress the truth or try to coerce any of your team to do the same, because you'll be drummed out of the Academy and Josh Albert deserves better than that! Oh and watch out for the oldman out in the rose-garden!
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
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