posted
Well, since we haven't gotten any messages from his "friend", I would take a wild guess that he merely hasn't been able to get online.
-------------------- "Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."
-Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney, LeMans
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Hopefully he's out celebrating a suspended sentence with some pizza, beer and a new older girlfreind. Slightly older girls are the best anyway.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
hrm.. interesting theory
Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Originally written as a reply to the new topic.
Holy shit. EIGHTEEN MONTHS? For a consentual (though illegal by law, I know) relationship that involved no abuse or violence of any kind?
That's just plain wrong. Yes, I know that Shik got off fairly easily considering the maximum possible sentences. But it's still wrong.
What sucks even more is the work-release program. Yes, it gets him out of jail early, which is a good thing, but he'll also be stuck in the area where the work-release center is, and it's very unlikely that he'll be able to get any decent job (higher than minimum wage, of course). The boss at my old job at the bagel shop hired a few people from a local work-release program, and I know that the only reason he did so was because he needed a few warm bodies behind the counter. It's not a very well-regarded opportunity.
Damn. Here's hoping for the best for him. Is there any way we can get in touch with him in the mean time? Send him letters, and stuff?
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:Holy shit. EIGHTEEN MONTHS? For a consentual (though illegal by law, I know) relationship that involved no abuse or violence of any kind?
Not to bring out the old arguement, but if she'd been ten and he'd been fifty, would you still be saying this? Shik is what, twice her age thereabouts? He's not an innocent here, and pretending he is just silly.
If anything about this should resound in your mind, it's this: if you meet a kick ass chick on the internet, and it turns out she's 14 or 15, do yourself a big favor, remind yourself that 18 months in jail and registering as a sex offender for the rest of your life is GETTING OFF EASY (and consider what happens to child molestors in jail), and keep your penis in your pants and tell her to contact you when she turns 18.
posted
You know, I wonder how Shik'll react when he gets out and visits the boards again, and reads all this. He'll probably tell Jeff and I to go to hell, but I don't think both of us can be there at once. Pauli exclusion principle or something. As I said in the now-locked thread, Jeff is correct, Shik is not blameless by any stretch of the imagination. Any young teenager's personality is going to change dramatically by the time they turn 18, and even if they consent they simply are not competent to do so, nor should they be. Mind you, I know quite a number of young girls at my church of whom I'm rather protective, so I may have a somewhat biased view, but...
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
I don't think Shik's side is totally unsympathetic, I just think he's been painted as the victim here and I don't think that's the situation by any stretch of the imagination. The girl in question, legally, can not consent to sex. She could've signed a contract in blood and it would still be null and void.
quote:Holy shit. EIGHTEEN MONTHS? For a consentual (though illegal by law, I know) relationship that involved no abuse or violence of any kind?
Not to bring out the old arguement, but if she'd been ten and he'd been fifty, would you still be saying this? Shik is what, twice her age thereabouts? He's not an innocent here, and pretending he is just silly.
That's innane. She WAS'NT ten and he's NOT 50. By the same reasoning, if he was 60 and she ws 25 it's be okay? Just ask Michael Douglass. No, Shik was not blameless by any stretch but to say that a 15 year old is somehow incapable of decoding weither it's okay to have sex or not is to deny any intelligence in teens at all. Does her daddy chew her food and tie her shoes for her too? Turning 18 is no magic bullet that makes you grow up- many 15-16 year olds are more emotionally mature than their 40 year old parents.
While I was'nt there, it sure sounds like the girl's dad is freaking out over this in part because he blew it in the parenting department. Shik blew it by allowing his feelings (and hormones, no doubt) to override the potential legal risks...and now he's paying dearly as result.
So while shikkie does a year and a half in the stir, the same DA that was so gung-ho to put him there has doubtlessly cut deals with violent offenders for more leinent terms to avoid the hassle of trial. Shik was an example, if he's only comitted a more mainstream crime he'd probably have a suspended sentence.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Depends on your definition of "home". "Home" is where you can drop the soap and not get nervous.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
quote:That's innane. She WAS'NT ten and he's NOT 50. By the same reasoning, if he was 60 and she ws 25 it's be okay?
You have a brain, use it. If he was 60 and she was 25 she'd be over the age of consent and it wouldn't be statatory rape, would it? You don't quite grasp the concept that there are human beings known as "children" and human beings known as "adults." Adults are allowed to make decisions such as sleeping with much older or younger partners (providing it's both consentual and they're over the age of consent), while children are not. The girl in question cannot legally consent to sex.
posted
The point is that while LEGALLY you are of course, quite correct, it was not as though she was held down or forced to have sex against her will. That is Rape. You are also right in saying that there is an age of consent and it is there for good reason, but don't believe that because she was 15 that she was intellectually incapable of choosing what to do with herself. By LAW it was not her choice to make, but if her parents (the same ones looking to throw away the key on Shik) were around, they might have asked about her personal life or if she's fucking anyone.
Once again, let me make clear, I am not condoning sex with 15 year olds, but I was stating that an age diffrence in and of itself does not alwayd make a relatinship wrong. The 18 year old age of consent is a relatively new thing to the world and even to our country in particular and while we both agree that 15 is too damn young, it was'nt always so.
So again, Shik is in jail while his ex-girl is doubtlessly doing all the same things with someone else (although probably closer to her own age group) and while daddy dearest considers this to be a one-time event of his "poor helpless baby" being molested, she's almost certainly putting out for someone new. I've yet to meet a girl that could'nt find a new guy or one that changed because their parents told them to.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
We know, and that's what some of us are bitching about -- the fact of the age of consent and the age of majority. Both are completely arbitrary. The age of majority is a simple line in the sand. Back in the eighteenth century, someone decided that before age eighteen a person isn't capable of thinking for themselves, but after eighteen they are. This of course makes no allowance for individual variation.
The age of consent is even messier, as it varies from state to state. If this had taken place in Georgia, for example, Lindsey's parents couldn't do a damn thing once she was over 16 (I can't remember at what point they found out and how long the legal mess has been dragging on). This also makes no allowance for individual variaion.
I've been a lot of places and met thousands of people in all age groups. Jason's point is fairly valid. I have met thirteen-year-olds (usually girls, this young) who are quite clear on who they are and what their life is about and are vastly more capable at taking care of themselves (if granted the means) than their parents are of taking care of them, or even themselves.
One case, omitting names, is a pretty extreme example, but makes a good illustration. She has known what she wants to do with her life since age eleven. She is now almost eighteen and that hasn't wavered. Her parents are extremely dysfunctional. Her mom lives in her own little universe, and probably hasn't heard a thing her daughter (or son or husband) has said in over a decade. Her dad occasionally smacks her upside the head for such wonderful reasons as accidentally grabbing the wrong burger out of the Jack-in-the-Box bag. Her younger brother is a pot-smoking burnout. He's been suspended twice for having marijuana pipes on him at school -- pipes he swiped from his parents' stash. This girl also frequently is home alone without anything to eat because no one's done any shopping, and her parents and brother aren't worried about it because they stopped by (for example) In & Out Burger on their way home and have eaten. There's a lot more, but that should give you an overview...
Now, I have also met the other extreme -- people in their fifties and sixties who still are incapable of making intelligent choices or managing their lives, so I know it cuts both ways.
I know the age of majority and the age(s) of consent are pegged at an age where the drafters of the legislation think they will protect the most innocents. However, I also think it's a pretty botch job, and I wish rather than just leaving things as they are, someone with a sociology degree would work up a way to allow for more individual variation.
I also think things should start much younger, with parents and teachers taking responsibility for instilling a firm moral compass, as well as nurturing critical thinking skills. I know one elementary school student (*holds up a hand*) who stagnated in school in first grade. I was already an accomplished reader from my own efforts and those of my mother. Among other incidents, I finished the first grade reader in a couple days of class time, reading ahead on my own, while marking the page where the class was reading aloud with a finger. My mom noticed I had finished it and asked the teacher and principal if I could be given the second grade reader. She was told I had to stay at the same level as the rest of the class.
Every individual varies as to when they are physically and emotionally prepared to engage in sexual activity. I'd been having fantasies about my female classmates since at least second grade. I was well-versed in theory. But I didn't have my first girlfriend until I was thirteen and I didn't lose my virginity until I was twenty-four. I knew what I was looking for, and I waited until I found it and knew it was the right thing to do for both of us.
My fiance� was much more of an early bloomer. Where I believe the average low-end age for menarche is about ten or eleven, she got hers when she was eight -- the summer before fourth grade. And she'd been developing in other ways for some time before then.
Again, it largely comes down to parental responsibility. Our parents made sure we knew what was what, how things worked, what sorts of considerations should be involved in those kinds of choices, and so on. We were a lot more prepared than kids who only get "don't have sex until you're married" from their parents, and a poorly-animated film in fifth grade to explain the mechanics. I have a friend in her early thirties who, at the time she got married, thought you got pregnant from kissing, had no clue what a penis was, or where it went. By her own account, she was pretty surprised that night.
So... Was Shik in the wrong? Yes, legally and technically. Morally? Ethically? Too many variables -- many of which are unknown to almost all of us -- to warrant passing judgment. Do her parents have a right to be upset? Hell, yes! Did they overreact? Quite probably. Their behaviour reminds me much of what happened after the Columbine shootings. Lots of finger-pointing, and no one who was accountable for those children taking responsibility for their failure to instill what they considered the proper moral compass.
Although, from what I've read of Lindsey's behaviour in the accounts here and in Shik's old blog, he was ascribing to her far more maturity than she actually possessed. Between not standing up to her parents to defend Shik and their relationship and her apparant lack of concern at the courtroom proceedings, I'd say life hasn't made much of an impact on her. And, as she's seventeen and almost to the age of majority, where she will thenceforth be accountable for her own development and life... Well, I don't have high hopes that she'll ever make much of a mark.
And that's my piece... --Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
