quote:Holy shit. EIGHTEEN MONTHS? For a consentual (though illegal by law, I know) relationship that involved no abuse or violence of any kind?
Not to bring out the old arguement, but if she'd been ten and he'd been fifty, would you still be saying this? Shik is what, twice her age thereabouts? He's not an innocent here, and pretending he is just silly.
Well, then let me put it in simpler terms. I agree in the interpretation of the letter of the law. I agree with the intent of the law -- protecting younger individuals who (on average) are not fully capable of making informed decisions on their own. I agree that what Shik did was morally and ethically wrong based on my own personal beliefs.
I do NOT agree, however, that the punishment fits the crime. That's why my issue here is.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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I'm fairly undecided. On the one hand, yes, obviously people mature at different rates.But on the other, you can't make it completely variable from person to person. Unless each kid gets a psychologist for their 10th birthday who has to follow them around every single day until they deam them fit enough to get their "I can have sex now" licence.
And physical and mental maturity can be fairly different too. A girl may start getting periods at age 8, but that doesn't mean that she is mentally capable of coping with a sexual relationship.
People are their own worst judges of maturity. How many people complained that they were being treated like a kid when they "obviously" weren't? How many people ever said "I'm really mature for my age"?
The varying age of consent for different states isn't a great argument either. You look hard enough, you'll find countries where kids can have sex at 12, or younger. Does that mean that we should make that the limit in our countries?
Unfortunatly, there is no flashing light that comes on when a person is ready for all of this. The age of consent is a neccessary evil to stop young people from being abused and/or manipulated. And I'd tend to prefer it err on the side of caution. So what if you think you're ready to have sex at 15? I thought I could drive a car at 12, and I still had to wait. You'll have the rest of your life to do the dirty, and if nothing else, it'll give you something to do on your 16th birthday.
Personally, I think the age gap is worse. I know that everyone can cit an example of someone they knew who didn't change at all between 12 and 25, in the same way that everyone seems to be able to cite an example of, well, pretty much anything you want, but the majority of people do change quite a bit between 15 and 25. Maybe not their initial surface personality, but deeper thoughts and feelings. It's one thing to have two people the same age going through that together, but it's fairly different to have someone going through it while their partner is worried about going bald and grey.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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One case, omitting names, is a pretty extreme example, but makes a good illustration.
It's a good illustration of an extreme case. Yes, there are SOME teenagers like that, but the vast majority aren't.
I wish rather than just leaving things as they are, someone with a sociology degree would work up a way to allow for more individual variation.
Agreed. But until that happens, things can't change. Yeah, 18's an arbitrary line, but there has to be SOME arbitrary line.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
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Also, it's pretty clear from looking at the abitary lines that something is cleary wrong. You can have sex and make a life 5 years before you are allowed to drink beer? That's clearly wrong.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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to cut down on fetal alcohol poisoning
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-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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*heh* Liam, remember that's the reason the voting age was lowered during the '60s. People were being drafted who had had no say in electing the administration that was drafting them.
But they still couldn't (and can't) legally drink for another three years, unless the laws of the country they are stationed in allow otherwise. Overseas posting is a wonderful thing for an eighteen-year-old enlistee.
Thank you for your comments. I can see there were still a couple areas where I was unclear in what I was trying to say, but I was worried about rattling on for too long...
Yes, I know physical maturity and intellectual/emotional maturity don't go hand-in-hand. I'm sorry if I implied that. What I was trying to conclude with that and my Columbine/Lindsey citation is that the minor's parents should take responsibility for establishing morality and self-discipline in their child. If something happens that they feel isn't in accordance with what they've been trying to teach, they need to make sure they know everything, and if they feel they need to take steps, to do so. But as the law is rather unsympathetic to extenuating circumstances, that should be the option of last resort rather than the first.
And that's also where I think I was going with my commentary about needing some system that allows for individual variation. I'm only an amateur sociologist, so I've only got a faint glimmer of what it looks like -- but parents are a big part of it. By actually being involved in their child's life and taking the appropriate steps at the appropriate times, they would be well-informed as to their child's level of maturity and development, wouldn't get surprised by something like this happening, and would have the ability to make allowances in the face of the letter of the law.
A child who is close to her parents would tell them about meeting someone she feels that strongly about, and could talk to them about her desires to become sexually active. A lot of you may be shaking your heads at this, but I wouldn't say it if I hadn't seen it in a few of my friends growing up, and me, as well. I had awesome parents. About their only failing in my upbringing was my mom's tendency to protect me and not encourage me to take risks. That's slowed things down in my life considerably, let me tell you.
But I told them everything, and still do. I knew if I did that I'd have more freedom than if I snuck around and was caught. By talking things out with them, they could gauge how well I knew what I was considering and make sure I either had any missing information or knew where to look for it. But Lindsey's parents seem to have done a spectacular job of raising a sheep.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
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Age of consent is a toughie as people do mature at different rates. However there does have to be a line somewhere and 16 doesn't really seem that bad to me. By that stage a majority of people should have become both physically and mentally mature enough to have sex. Equally though modern society does seem to encourage earlier sex and promiscuity which does seem to have led to an explosion in STDs at the very least- I'm going to leave to arguement about desirable levels of morality alone for the moment.
I will say one thing though; at 16 you can get married, have a family, join the armed forces and sell scrap metal, but you can't vote. Why? I can't see how things can get any worse if 16 and 17 year olds are given the vote.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
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All I want from this thread are more alternative names for jail. I really love those. The big house. Stir. Lockdown. The pokey. Calaboose. The hoosegaw. (gow?)
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-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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