Apparently Paramount commissioned a little test project to test the feasibility of updating the visual effects of TOS for the early 21st century... I'm not sure if I'd like to see this as an actual production � the 60's effects certainly have their charm � but HOT DAMN, THAT LOOKS AWESOME!
Thoughts?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
To provide the obligatory needle for your balloon, I'm sure that we've talked about this before (though I don't remember if there was actual video the last time around), but my first attempts at searching don't seem to turn anything up.
On edit: Aha, I think. Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Oh, I remember that people have discussed the possibility before (here as well, and more recently than 1999, which was before my time here)... I just wasn't aware that they'd actually gone and DONE it. And I'd certainly never seen the actual footage.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Wait! Is that even from Paramount? I don't see anything in the credits that indicate it is. Yet the guy who did this sure did his homework though, especially on the Constellation. I only regrent that there weren't more shots of the Planet Killer or even a scene where the ships fight it.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Yes, I remember talking about this before, because I remember making a comment that Paramount should focus more on making ENTERPRISE a better show instead of tweaking an old show that doesn't need to be tweaked.
That said, I agree that the effects look good. However, didn't the guys who made Red Dwarf decide to go back & fix their effects, to lukewarm response?
Unless there were really cool space battles reminiscent of DS9 (which I don't recall TOS ever having), there's really no reason to do this.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Unless there were really cool space battles reminiscent of DS9 (which I don't recall TOS ever having), there's really no reason to do this.
Well, there's obviously some kick-ass action in "The Doomsday Machine" (which is the linked clip, for those who haven't looked yet). "The Ultimate Computer" could be jazzed up. "Balance of Terror," "Errand of Mercy," "The Enterprise Incident," among others... And that's just the space battles. They could do other cool effects like the flying brain parasites or the giant space amoeba, too.
Hell, maybe they could've CGI'd in some ridged foreheads for all the Klingons. Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
But then that would invalidate "Trials and Tribble-ations"...
--Jonah
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
I was rather impressed with the shot where Kirk walks infront of the viewscreen, but I didn't like that it showed the screen as a flat image rather than giving it depth.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:"The Ultimate Computer" could be jazzed up.
That's a perfect example. However, they would almost definitely not do what I would like. Lemme explain...
Question: Why is every other Federation starship in TOS (besides the Constellation) represented by stock footage of the Enterprise? Because TPTB either didn't have the money or the desire to build new models to represent and actual "Star Fleet" made up of ship designs other than the Constitution class.
Now, with updating the FX for "The Ultimate Computer," you could have three totally different vessels representing the three Connies in that ep. (And a new freighter design to represent the Woden/Botany Bay model) Would we all love that? YES!!! ('cause it's Paramount, so it's canon, so to speak). Would that be what they'd do? Probably not. They'd just have the same exact scenes, but in CGI. Big deal.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
This has definately been discussed before - I've seen this before and I usually get all my stuff through here.
I think it looks really good. The planet killer was actually scary when it first appeared on screen and turned towards the Enterprise.
They definately have to keep the original feel - but just make it less... crappy. Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I'd say this is the real deal commissioned by Paramount as it's done by Daren Dochterman or however you spell his hame.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I remember seeing this back in '03. I was mildly impressed, but I remember thinking it still needed work. After the job they did on TMP, I'd love to see what Foundation could do to TOS. Digitally match the film grain, proper colour filters, etc.
And give the bloody Constellation a different registry! I'll sacrifice continuity for consistency. Damned Desilu visual effects department couldn't spring for a second model kit... *grumble* I'd be happy with 1717, or 1710. Or heck. Do a little bit of redubbing, the reverse of TNG's "The Battle", and make her the Constitution -- 1700!
Now where'd I put my Nomex long johns...?
--Jonah
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: Unless there were really cool space battles reminiscent of DS9 (which I don't recall TOS ever having), there's really no reason to do this.
One potential space battle was in "Errand of Mercy" between Starfleet and the Klingons - although each squared up against each other - neither could fire a weapon.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote: That said, I agree that the effects look good. However, didn't the guys who made Red Dwarf decide to go back & fix their effects, to lukewarm response?
Yeah, although that was in part due to the somewhat less than convincing nature of mid-90s CGI (at least on Red Dwarf's budget) compared to the original model shots. They also went back and changed some of the dialogue, as well as the design of the ship. All the DVD releases are of the original version AFAIK, although series VIII uses the CGI version of the Dwarf.
Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :
I think the new CG would be interesting to see in Balance Of Terror ..
Dunno if Paramount would invest the $$ tho' in something like this.. TOS in syndication is still popular in its current form; why fix something that isn't broken..
Could it bring some Trek fan back to rehash the old ones again? Maybe.. I still record them and watch them daily .. but i would certainly love to see them 'refurbished'.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Maybe they do this as a gimmick like Star Trek 2.0 on G4, call it Star Trek 1.1 Beta. Except it wouldn't have that annoying frame where people type random shit at the bottom.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I see nothing in that clip that's any better or more convincing than the original VFX. But then, I'm sure everyone's aware of my well-recorded views on the Star Wars special editions and the director's edition of TMP. Rubbish.
Vintage films/TV shows with CGI effects = CRAP. Period. Full stop.
-MMoM Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
Well so long as they weren't intended to supplant the originals, only supplement, I wouldn't have a problem. Sure looked neat. Also I got a chance to talk to Darren Dochterman at a con. He was cool and very funny.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wraith:
quote: That said, I agree that the effects look good. However, didn't the guys who made Red Dwarf decide to go back & fix their effects, to lukewarm response?
Yeah, although that was in part due to the somewhat less than convincing nature of mid-90s CGI (at least on Red Dwarf's budget) compared to the original model shots. They also went back and changed some of the dialogue, as well as the design of the ship. All the DVD releases are of the original version AFAIK, although series VIII uses the CGI version of the Dwarf.
YES!! The Red Dwarf re-done effects for season 1-7 were CRAPTACULAR!!
The model of Red Dwarf and the effects right from season 1 were just fine - better than that crappy CGI redesign.
And yes they even edited episodes down. They took out some of the most absurd and funniest jokes from some episodes like "Better than Life" - Cat's girlfriend Miranda...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I see nothing in that clip that's any better or more convincing than the original VFX. But then, I'm sure everyone's aware of my well-recorded views on the Star Wars special editions and the director's edition of TMP. Rubbish.
Vintage films/TV shows with CGI effects = CRAP. Period. Full stop.
-MMoM
I'm sure if you did a side by side comparison with the original footage the improvement would become more evident. It seams the same because whomever did this was being very faithful to the original camera angles, compositions and even the pans. Of course none of this improves the story telling, just makes the reactions to what's on the viewscreen a little more credible.
As far as those examples you mentioned, I'd say that both had a limited ammount of success. The Star Wars Special Editions were a little over cooked, apparantly old George developed a thing for slapstick at the time, as evidenced by a certain unamable charater from episode one. As far as TMS:SE, I though that was lagely successful, the only let down was that in places the new effects quite obviously had bugetary restrictions (same goes for Red Dwarf.) However, at least they made a consious effort to match up the style to the original footage.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I just watched that episode on DVD last week. There's nothing wrong with the VFX. They were state-of-the-art at the time, and they match the production values of the show perfectly. Redoing them to pander to those who can't appreciate them for what they are would not be any kind of improvement.
I can't fathom how anybody can enjoy watching effects shots that so obviously stand out as being anachronistic to the rest of a production. Rubbish. Crap.
-MMoM Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Some of us respect creative anacrhonism...
--Jonah
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I agree Nim, I think the effects look neat - but there is nothing wrong with leaving it of course. I'll again recount my viewing of nearly 12 hours straight of Trek in a Season 1 marathon. By about episode 5 the weirdness of the grain and the crap or non-existant effects (which had bothered me before when watching a single episode here and there after watching modern Trek) had fallen away. I appreciated Trek for what it was and wasn't distracted by the differences in cosmetic touches.
Still, those new effects look nice. Add a little bit of drama - for me at least - the appearance - as I said above of the planet killer gave me shivers - sort of like the 'magnification' of the Borg ship in BOBW Part 1.
Interesting effect for the tractor beam too... or was that orange to begin with - I can't remember.
I wouldn't mind seeing a version with redone effects. As long as the normal ones were freely available. No George Lucas style trying to rewrite history.
Having said all that though, a sign of good Trek are episodes that could take place in a room with no effects and still kick arse. DS9 pulled that off in spades!
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Interesting effect for the tractor beam too... or was that orange to begin with - I can't remember.
You know, when I first watched the video I assumed the orange thing was just battle damage - I remember in "Doomsday Machine" that the Enterprise takes damage at one point and has to carry out emergency repairs. I took it to be material venting out of a section of ruptured hull. Of course then I realised that all the scenes in the video are from before the planet killer opened fire on the Enterprise, so tractor beam seems more likely!
I don't think they ever actually showed the tractor beam in TOS - it was used plenty, but I don't recall ever seeing a visual effect associated with it. I think the closest we come to seeing it is when Kirk orders it used against an air force jet in "Tomorrow is yesterday" - when it is switched on the cockpit fills with a bright light and an electrical sound is heard (though that could be the jet itself, as the tractor beam crushed it moments later).
As for the effects they're not bad and it might be an interesting idea, but I think it would rob TOS of some of its charm. Part of the fun of watching classic Trek is the bright colours, the hammy acting and the "I can see the strings" effects. It gives it character, and given what a grey, dull, soulless beast later Trek became I'd like to keep as much character of the original as possible.
Some of the DVDs from the older Doctor Who series have updated special effects, but there is an option on the main menu that allows you to choose which one you want: the new effects or the classic ones. Such an approach might well work if they were to redo TOS. I suspect I'm not the only one who would be interested to see it, but would like the option to keep the feel of the original as well.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
quote:Originally posted by FawnDoo: Some of the DVDs from the older Doctor Who series have updated special effects, but there is an option on the main menu that allows you to choose which one you want: the new effects or the classic ones. Such an approach might well work if they were to redo TOS. I suspect I'm not the only one who would be interested to see it, but would like the option to keep the feel of the original as well.
Thankfully, they finally came to this same realization with the upcoming (re)release of the classic Star Wars trilogy on DVD.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
How many versions of the original trilogy will that be for everyone?
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Hmm... original VHS, laserdisc, THX-enhanced VHS, Special Edition, DVD Special Edition, DVD Super Special Edition... *sigh*
I should clarify that though I started this thread and I think the idea is cool, I absolutely hate George Lucas-style retconning and forcibly removing the original theatrical versions. I would absolutely still consider the original to be the "true" form, but I would still love to see some modern visualizations for the old show, regardless. ("In a Mirror, Darkly," anyone?)
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I originally had the idea for Star Wars on DVD (Hi-Density or Blu-Ray). Put everything on there, and in the menu one can choose original theatrical edition, Special Edition, WTF?-DVD-Retcon Edition, or Do-It-Yourself Edition -- where you can select which versions of which scenes you want to have in your personal ideal version.
Like, I'd drop the whole Anchorhead/Reunion With Biggs sequence in, no matter its state of restoration. For the dramatic elements, too -- not just for Koo Stark.
I think the same would work just dandily for Trek. Original version, or with extra-crispy VFX -- but on the same disc so you can choose with each viewing which you're in the mood for.
--Jonah
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I have the SE on VHS tape somewhere...I considered buying the DVD's but realised that I never watch the movies anymore and actually fell asleep during Star Wars when it was re-released in the theatres. The friends I went with looked at me like I peed in the communion wine or something.
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