posted
THIS IS NOT A "SHIPS OF WOLF 359" THREAD, DAMMIT!
The Borg attack at Wolf 359 was the first real punch in the nose we really saw happen to Starfleet in the TNG era. Before that, Starfleet was arguably invincible - big, powerful, with weaponry able to wreck whole planets if need be. Then, 40 starships were lost at the hands of one Borg vessel. This has formed the root of what has become the most discussed, analysed, and memorable battles in Star Trek history - possibly in all of science-fiction.
What we saw on the screen affected us on a very viscreal, and even more emotional level - compounded by the fact that we never really *saw* the battle. Two years and change later, we were finally treated to a snippet of that fight, with the opening scenes of "Emissary". At the same time, that scene raised questions aplenty.
What I'm asking you now, is what the big QUESTIONS of Wolf 359, and of the whole Borg incursion, that there are. What DON'T we know, and what us fans would LIKE to know. We've answered a few questions, and speculated on a million more already, right here on this forum. What I want to do is form a list of the big QUESTIONS that cannot be answered by canonical evidence.
I don't want answers! Just the big questions. With this list, it can put into context what we the fans feel are the most important things we'd want to know about the battle, and what we the fans really want the answers to. This in turn may provide a common base from which we can stage future analyses.
I'll start off:
- What ships were at Wolf 359, aside from the ones we already know of?
- Who were the captains of the ships there? How many Admirals could have been there? What are their stories?
- Where'd all the escape pods go?
- Were there Starfleet cadets at Wolf 359? What role could the Academy have played?
- Just how long did the battle last? How long did Starfleet have to assemble its fleet?
-Where was the rest of the Fleet when Sisko's USS Saratoga was attacking? Why were only five ships seen in the opening scenes? Did the Saratoga's attack represent the beginning of the battle, or some point later on?
-What tactics did Starfleet try on the cube? Did they attempt anything hi-tech, or go for a traditional brawl of a battle?
-Why was the Excelsior-class starship blown apart within a few seconds, while it took several minutes for the Borg to take apart the Saratoga?
-We know that some people were assimilated during the battle. How many were assimilated? How did the Borg rationalize the number and type of people assimilated? Were civilians assimilated too?
- What was going on at Starfleet Command while the cube was coming? How about during the battle?
- Was there any sort of evacuation attempt from Earth? Where was all the civilian traffic?
That's a good beginning. What other questions are there? What do we want to know? Remember, I don't want this thread to have ANY ANSWERS to any of the questions asked. Leave that for another thread. Just questions, people.
posted
I'd imagine the Borg used their tractor beams to grab escape pods ... or, they used their transporters to beam crewmembers off ships who'd lost their shields.
How did they get assimilated crewmembers back to the Delta Quad?
posted
Yes it is Veers but he kinda made up for it by asking a question as well.
With regard to the transportation of assimilated people to the Delta Quadrant, here's a sub question: Didn't Shatner's book address this issue with some sort of subspace/transwarp transporter system?
-------------------- If you cant convince them, confuse them.
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
This is a cool thread Mark, and you've posed some interesting queries. Here's one that comes to mind:
Just what kind of defensive structures and protocols does Starfleet have in place to deal with such threats to Earth? And what part did they play, if any, in the Borg attack? The Mars defense perimeter was pretty lame, and 40 starships, most quite old, wasn't much of a counter measure.
After the V'Ger and Whale Probe incidents you'd have thought there were some super-heavy defensive contingencies to counter any foreign elements that endanger Earth - the key system to the Federation.
-------------------- "To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty
posted
I agree, it seems that Starfleet's presence in the Sol system was at best token. Don't forget that during the Dominion War, a Breen attack Fleet once against broke through whatever defenses Sol had, and struck Earth directly. Although that time, the physical and moral impact of the damage was way out of proportion. And it appeared a signifigant amount of Breen ships were involved, but only a few did actually get a shot at Starfleet HQ, judging by the damage.
Of course, the problem with above is that we don't know if Starfleet was actively attritioning the Breen Fleet as it traversed Federation space, or did the majority of Breen losses occur near or in Sector 001. It would seem likely that it was the former, if Starfleet was only able to scrape up less than two dozen ships for a direct Borg incursion into Sol in the VOY final (feel free to strike this sentence from the record).
We know Earth possess fixed defenses, where were they during all of this? Could a single Borg cube defeat the planetary defense network and shields?
-------------------- "God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
i want to know why an oberth was present at the battle. was it a scout? was it picking up escape pods? was starfleet really that desperate for ships?
For obvious reasons, I may not be saying much, but Wolf 359 is probably going to be the coolest part of the book. Already some of your comments have got my wheels turning...
However, I think it's going to be impossible to keep this thread going without naturally wanting to discuss answers and solutions, so I implore Mark to lift the embargo on answers!!
And I'm very glad to hear that an Oberth was there... I just had the model built - complete with Wolf 359 battle damage!
posted
According to Mike Okuda, 39 ships were lost out of the 40...
Personally, I subscribe to the 'one ship survived' theory.
Oh wait, this is Jeapordy and it has to be a question right? Hmmm... OK: Isn't it great that personally, I subscribe to the 'one ship survived' theory?
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
In regards to the 40 ships, were these all Federation ships? Did Admiral Hanson not say in The Best of Both Worlds that the Klingons were sending ships as well? (As I recall, he even said that the Feds had considered contacting the Romulans.)
I always wondered what the Klingon’s situation was at Wolf 359. I thought that they would have really been “itchin’” for a good fight, and as a result, would have sent an entire armada!
-------------------- “My experience with Rick Berman is, you know, he does not understand what he's doing, he does not understand science fiction.” -- Andrew Probert
Registered: Apr 2001
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OnToMars
Now on to the making of films!
Member # 621
posted
(Mojo, an Oberth can be seen quite clearly in DS9 'Emmissary Pt 1'. When Sisko enters his quarters to save Jake and Jennifer, the back bulkhead is blown away, revealing space. An Oberth flies by, and is struck on its saucer by a weapon and blown to bits)
-What was the civilian population doing during this? When the Cube broke through the Mars perimeter, was their rioting or what?
-What was Mars and the rest of the solar system doing during this? Evacuation perhaps?
-What were the fixed and largely defenseless Starfleet installations doing, like the shipyards?
-------------------- If God didn't want us to fly, he wouldn't have given us Bernoulli's Principle.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Yeah, the next step was going to start up another thread dealing with the answers to said questions. What I wanted to accomplish here was to come up with a "master list" of questions for reference while we're pounding through the answers. I also want to concentrate on ASKING the questions, and to find out new questions to ask; on the Forums here we tend to concentrate on the ubiquitous "Ships at Wolf 359" issue, that other things tend to be pushed out of the way.
So, we'll start up a separate thread in a day or so, which will be headed up by a big list of the questions asked in this thread. So keep asking questions!
Oh, and if anyone wants to ask the "what ships were at Wolf 359" question, I think we'll have to collectively pound on you a little.
More questions:
-This was obviously a really big crisis. What were the rest of the Federation core worlds up to? How would they be reacting to all their defending starships suddenly being pulled away - and then toasted?
-What exactly is the Mars Defence Perimeter? Was it really just those three little ships, or did it incorporate static defences?
-DS9 "The Valiant" mentioned the old starship USS Republic (used as an Academy training ship), which presumably hadn't left the solar system in fifty years (as of 2374). This was presumably an attempt to reconcile Kirk's being a Lieutenant on the Republic while still at the academy. Also, the Republic was presumably an old Constitution (NCC-1371) class ship. In any case, could the old girl have had something to do (or not to do) with Wolf 359?
-Could the Borg cube have encountered other ships, Starfleet or not, along the way to Earth? What about other threat forces, like the Romulans? Or did they transwarp over that territory?
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