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Posted by Akula (Member # 319) on :

These are the top 5 questions that I would love to know,espescially now that the new era shows are over.
5.Are there any designs that were displayed on diagrams or consuls or charts, or any small models of ships that we have now model for,and what do they look like?(The existence of these is implied in the encyclopedia and in other books.)
4.What does the studio model of the Deneva that was briefly seen look like?
3.Is the Renaissance class vessal seen in the comic book based of a parmount design that was seen on a consul or the like.(Does anybody have a copy of that book and if so could they scan in that ship,I understand that it is very similar to the ASDB design.)
2.Does a rigel class starship exist for Best of Both Worlds?(I personly believe that they thourgh in a quickly made design.)
1.What does the model of the apollo class starship look like? From conventions I understand that it was in a scene from DS9 Embisary that was not included but that the model was used later in the DS9 series.I also understand that it is a combination of Ambasador parts without the lower hull but that it is not quite like the internet version.

Posted by Davok (Member # 143) on :

consul n 1 an official appointed by a state to live in a foreign city. A consul's job is to help people from her or his own country who are travelling or living there, and to protect their interests.

Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

I'll take a stab at this.

5. Yes, there are many. Bernd has a good amount of them in his starship list at www.ex-astris-scientia.org.

4. I'd like to know this as well. The only evidence we have is the extremely tiny screencap, which doesn't really show anything useful.

3. AFAIK, the comic book artists just made the design up themselves, and it is not official, nor do I believe that Okuda et. al made a design for it or any of the other conjectural classes.

2. No. Okuda has explicitly stated this. Also, the only other person who coul have "thrown in" any more models was Greg Jein, and he only built the Firebrand and the Princeton.

1. Again, I'd like to know this as well. However, since the unused footage showing the Gage was never shown, we'll probably never know. I emailed Okuda about this, but he didn't know either. I haven't heard anything about the model being used in later episodes, but if it was, what ship could it possibly have been?

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

4.) It was the Merchantman-Model (from ST 3) AFAIK.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

"5.Are there any designs that were displayed on diagrams or consuls or charts, or any small models of ships that we have now model for,and what do they look like?(The existence of these is implied in the encyclopedia and in other books.)"

Well, the Wolf359 ships, first of all. As mentioned, you can find them at Bernd's site. There are also a few from computer displays, like the SS Mariposa (if you like pre-Starfleet ships), an Orion ship and some sort of tanker (FASA ships that bear those designations, but weren't actually named on the show; just their diagrams were shown), and the Hermes and Ptolemy classes (Franz Joseph ships that were used on displays in ST2, but not actually named on screen).

"4.What does the studio model of the Deneva that was briefly seen look like?"

Most likely just the Merchantman, or some other oft-reused model. It wasn't seen visibly enough to tell, really, and we haven't found out from anyone who actually worked on it, either.

"3.Is the Renaissance class vessal seen in the comic book based of a parmount design that was seen on a consul or the like.(Does anybody have a copy of that book and if so could they scan in that ship,I understand that it is very similar to the ASDB design.)"

I'm guessing the comic people made it up.

"2.Does a rigel class starship exist for Best of Both Worlds?(I personly believe that they thourgh in a quickly made design.)"

No. The original dialogue was supposed to include the Chekov, the Springfield-class ship. But the producers thought the reference was too "cute", or something, so they changed it later to Tolstoy. Okuda just made up the name Rigel to go w/ it, since the ship itself didn't exist, except in that line of dialogue.

"1.What does the model of the apollo class starship look like? From conventions I understand that it was in a scene from DS9 Embisary that was not included but that the model was used later in the DS9 series.I also understand that it is a combination of Ambasador parts without the lower hull but that it is not quite like the internet version."

I don't know about the "Emissary" stuff, but certain evidence suggests that the Vulcan ships seen in "Unification II" were Apollo-class. It's a subject of much dispute.

[ June 01, 2001: Message edited by: TSN ]

Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :

To help with some of these questions, the Denava was most likely a freighter/tranporter.

I've heard many theories on the Apollo and always rejected the Vulcan hypothesis. Even tho the Encyclopedia states it as so, I find it unlikely the Vulcans would name one of their ships classes after an ancient mythological Earth Deity.

(Even tho they themselves carry the name 'Vulcans' - after another mytho-deity, but that is simply what the Humans call them. This is analagous to the Romulans also. The indiginous name for these races hasn't been revealed)

I've also heard a number of theories on the Rigel. I always imagined it to be an older Cruiser, perhaps contemporary to Ambassador, but there's a lot to suggest it was intended to be a Nebula variant, sporting 2 extra, small nacelles. I've seen designs of this ship, Bernd has them at his site.

Like TSN, I'm not sure about the Emissary connection. I wasn't aware of that.

Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

Well, the small-nacelled Nebula variant was the original Melbourne.

quote:
Like TSN, I'm not sure about the Emissary connection. I wasn't aware of that.

Here's the deal. Battle footage was created and shot for the episode before the script was finalized. The footage (according to the first draft of the script, and also mentioned in the ship list at the official site) contained the original Melbourne, the Kyushu, the Saratoga, and the Gage. When the script was changed, the footage was scrapped and new footage was filmed, which was what everyone saw in the episode. No one has ever seen the unused footage.

Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :

Now that you mention this it does ring a bell. I for one would be very interested at getting a look at that lost footage, if it still exists.

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

Most of fandom (except FASA) hold that the Romulans' name for themselves is 'Rihannsu', derived from the larger of the trojan worlds that make up their 'homeworld' -- Romulus and Remus to us, ch'Rihan and ch'Havran to them. I don't think I've ever seen the Vulcans' name for themselves, though. Just that the indigenous names for their homeworld(s) is/are T'Khasi and T'Khut (or Vulcan and Charis to us Terrans)...

As far as "Emissary" goes, the final footage shows the Ambassador-class Yamaguchi, the Nebula-class Bellerophon, the Miranda-class Saratoga, and both the Nebula-class and Excelsior-class Melbournes.

And the Arcos has always looked to me like a fuzzy Galaxy-class stardrive section...

--Jonah

Posted by Akula (Member # 319) on :

Just to clarify,
On 5. I was looking for non-Wolf 359 ships, I was looking for more Fed designs.
Now some notes,
4.The like the Challenger that was later proved to be incorrect I thought that the Hornet was also based on a discription, possibly on a bridge display.
2. I would like to say that the rigel exists in some form especial since in the famous slide show there is still a uncounted for ship discription. "A Enterprise hull with two nacelles placed on the top of the saucer section" Althought this might be the discription of the Springfield?
1.I would love to see the lost footage! It supposly also apeared later on as a wreak in a Junk Yard/Battle scene? Althought I can't imagine which episode that was in as most of the war scenes were done?

Posted by Akula (Member # 319) on :

by computer?

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

We have never seen the following designs:

Andromeda
Renaissance
Apollo (to my knowledge)
Rigel
Surak
Yorkshire
Zodiac
Wambundu
Hokule'a
Bradbury
Chimera
Deneva (not clearly enough, anyway)
Korolev
Mediterranean
Istanbul
Sequoia
Merced

And to the best of my knowledge, none of them even have designs, save possibly the Apollo and Deneva classes.

--Jonah

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

BTW, the image from the slide-show you referred to is most likely the Springfield-class Chekov, as seen here: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/wolf359/chekov-paul.jpg

--Jonah

Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :

In fact there a few other classes which have questions marks next to their designs.

New orleans Class - Wolf 359 wreck, we've never had a detailed view on screen of this class, but the official model gives us enough idea of its design.

Niagara Class - Another wolf 359 participant with quesion marks, but a strangely designed model does exist.

Daedalus Class - certainly a canon design now, but we've yet to see it on screen.

Springfield Class - Wolf 359 yet again (as Peregriuns suggests, see Bernd's site to investigate all these Wolf 359 ships)

Challenger Class - Some say Constitution Variant, some say a more modern Galaxy Variant. Possibley the latter, but a Galaxy variant called 'Challenger', and a Galaxy Class called 'Challenger (Geordi's future command), it seems unlikely. Don't know about that one.

Cheyenne Class - Certainly a newer starship, cameoed at Wolf 359.

Freedom Class - Possibley a controversial one nacelle ship. Again a barely seen Wolf 359 victim.

Posted by Akula (Member # 319) on :

Here's my argument for the Rigel Class ship being the Melborne.
1.As clearly stated in the Encyclopedia the Melborne is Excelsior class. The other Melborne's name and regestry are not clearly visible in the episodes. The federation would never have 2 vessels of the name and regesty in the same battle! In fact the orignal melborne was long though to be the Rigel!
2.Shelly named the both ships in the dialog and since we now that the Melborne was Excelsior class, this leaves only one ship to be the Rigel. Shelly probly mistaked the Excelsior study model for the Melborne.
3.The Melborne is very diffent from the Nebula and could easly be a different type of ship.

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

quote:
The federation would never have 2 vessels of the name and regesty in the same battle!

But the Federation had 2 vessels of the same name and registry in the same battle!

quote:
In fact the orignal melborne was long though to be the Rigel!

That doesn't make it true.

quote:

3.The Melborne is very diffent from the Nebula and could easly be a different type of ship.

I would say not more different than the Phoenix from the Farragut.

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

quote:
Challenger Class - Some say Constitution Variant, some say a more modern Galaxy Variant. Possibley the latter, but a Galaxy variant called 'Challenger', and a Galaxy Class called 'Challenger (Geordi's future command), it seems unlikely. Don't know about that one.

http://www.fleetyard.com/construction/construction.html

Challenger is a Galaxy/Typhoon-sub mix.

Posted by targetemployee (Member # 217) on :

In the episode "The Wounded", there is a model of a starship in the Phoenix's ready room. I don't believe this ship is a Nebula Class variant. I could be wrong. Does anyone have this episode and a scanner?

Spike,
I have been to your site. I see that you have listed class information for some of the ships for Star Trek VI. What is the source of your information?

I think, in regards to the battle in "Emissary", that the builders of that battle might have been wiser to give the Excelsior Class starship a new name and registry.

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

quote:
In the episode "The Wounded", there is a model of a starship in the Phoenix's ready room. I don't believe this ship is a Nebula Class variant. I could be wrong. Does anyone have this episode and a scanner?

Frank provided these screenshots a long time ago:
http://flare.solareclipse.net/cgi2/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000491&p=2

quote:
Spike,
I have been to your site. I see that you have listed class information for some of the ships for Star Trek VI. What is the source of your information?

Which ones exactly?

Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

quote:
I would like to say that the rigel exists in some form especial since in the famous slide show there is still a uncounted for ship discription. "A Enterprise hull with two nacelles placed on the top of the saucer section" Althought this might be the discription of the Springfield?

The only other unused ship design was a Miarecki kitbash consisting of two Galaxy saucers stacked on top of each other, with two nacelles in between. This model was not meant to be one of the Okuda-ordered ships, and he has told me that no other ships of Miarecki's were used except the five we know of. It was probably made as a joke, and was most definitely not given a name or registry number.

There is NO Rigel. The name "Tolstoy" was dubbed over "Chekov" in post-production. The battle scene was already filmed before this change, so no other ships were added to the scene. Also, the Tolstoy was not mentioned in the first draft script for Emissary, so no corresponding model was likely built for that scene either.

quote:
I would love to see the lost footage! It supposly also apeared later on as a wreak in a Junk Yard/Battle scene? Althought I can't imagine which episode that was in as most of the war scenes were done?

Your source for this information?

[ June 03, 2001: Message edited by: Dukhat ]

Posted by Akula (Member # 319) on :

The discription came from a show on props and ships. Most of the information was a old stuff they brought a model of a excelsior and a lot of props. But they did talk about the making of the first episode and some borg stuff. The guys were SFX,prop, and coustume guys I don't remeber there names as it was about a year and a half ago two years ago.
My understanding of the 2 galaxy saucers was that it had the top parts of 2 saucers and the warp nacelles at the very edge? Could you post a picture?

Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

No picture likely exists of the model. It probably was never even completed or painted. However, I made a crude photoshop pic from the Melbourne desktop model:

[ June 03, 2001: Message edited by: Dukhat ]

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

That is an interesting idea for a ship... stick a 'connection' between the two saucers and possible a deflector dish on the underside... what would be 'technically' wrong with that design? Its like a stack of pancakes with two nacelles wedged in between them...

Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :

Hey that ship's funny! Anyone for a Nacelle Sandwhich?

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Looks like some kind of warp-capable frisbee... *L*

Posted by Akula (Member # 319) on :

Thats really neat!

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

A Federation Warbird, perhaps?

Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :

Looks like something out of battlestar galactica.

Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :

interesting concept, but the nacelles in such close proximity to the saucers could possibly cause a number of hazardous warp field effects to the crew.

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

And what's with the crew of an Oberth, Defiant or Steamrunner?

Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :

Yeh, touche, a fair point. I was thinking more about the initial theory by Enterprise designer Matt Jefferies whose motivation to set the warp nacelles far back away from the ship's super structure was to protect the crew from the warp field. And that design theme is still evident in the 24th century, - Galaxy, Intrepid, Soveriegn etc etc. But these other classes you mention do indeed go against this grain.

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

Also, there's the shuttlecraft and the runabout which have the nacelles in extreme proximity to the crew habitation module.

I think the only thing that goes againt Gene R's rules for starship design are the fact that they may not be 50%+ visible to each other. But again, Intrepid and Defiant classes already snapped that one in two.

Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :

So did the runabouts, the shuttles, the Attack Fighters, the Maquis Raiders, the Federation Scout the Delta Flyer and the Holoship not to mention the Saber, Nebula and Peregine classes.

Surfice to say, those rules are fairly outated...or simply don't apply to ships that are not named Enterprise

Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :

Spike: Defiants have a crew of 40, I think the Oberths have crews of between 40 and 80 - but don't quote me on that, and as for the Steamrunner - I don't have a clue! It has never been stated anywhere that I've seen, except for www.ditl.com which says that it is 185. But I'd take that with a pinch of salt.