As a spin-off from my unending quest to get a screencap featuring a decent side-on view of the MACO rifle, so I can work up a schematic of it, I've been compiling a list of the MACO personnel we've seen so far. Here's what I've got.
NOTE: This list includes details of which actors are known to appear in upcoming episodes, information from press releases etc. and freely available on Trektoday etc.; while it doesn't say what they do in that episode, to some the mere fact that a certain guest star is known to appear is too much of a spoiler for them, so be warned!
Major D. (?) Hayes (Steven Culp) - "The Xindi," "The Shipment," "Harbinger," "Hatchery."
Sergeant N. Kemper (Nathan Anderson) - "The Xindi," "Anomaly."
Corporal Chang (Daniel Dae Kim) - "The Xindi," "Extinction," "Hatchery."
S. Money (Dorenda Moore) - "The Xindi," "Raijin," "North Star."
G. (?) Woods - "Anomaly," "Twilight," "North Star."
H. or M. Austin - "Raijin."
D. Moreno - "Twilight."
C. Hammond (Kevin Derr?) - "North Star."
Amanda Cole (Noa Tishby) - "Harbinger."
Notes:
1. With the caps I've been getting, it's sometimes almost possible to determine the first initial. It's not always easy, it's like trying to read the registry of the USS Fredrickson from Relativity!
2. Ryan is the sniper from "The Xindi;" I'm not sure about him appearing in "Anomaly," that's from someone else's list, and there is someone who looks a bit like him in "Twilight."
3. So that's at least fifteen MACO on board. . . That sound right, given there are still supposedly about 80 people on board?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
OK, Money and Woods were in "Chosen Realm" (just finished watching it) along with two others I've not see before. . .
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Wow, that's some pretty good work. Now, let's try to establish some context here. Does anyone know how Marine detachments are assigned aboard ships? Number, groupings or squads, and so forth? And for comparison's sake, how are army team or squads arranged?
Mark
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Something else to think about, courtesy of a former Navy SEAL I talk with over email:-
quote:As far as what the MACOs do, you could expect them jogging (although, it looks like Enterprise's gym might have equipment to simulate "jogging over distance" without doing it in the cramped corridors, something like those "virtual reality" skiing apparatuses you sometimes see in arcades). You'd also see them engaging in alot of the other physical activities available in the gym. Probably a lot of the skills-sharpening stuff, would be supplementing and cross-training with other crew members (learning to use and service the ship's weapons systems, small arms, shuttlepods, possibly some personnel spending time "apprenticed" to Dr. Phlox, or Hoshi, etc. to utilize medical or communications training) and I would also imagine they and the ship's security personnel utilizing sections of the ship for "wargaming", practicing room entry, hostage rescue (there's one for you, LT Reed playing the part of a hostage-taker, and T'Pol playing the part of damsel-in-distress!) and so on. I also imagine they'd engage in familiarization and re-familiarization with as much of the ship's systems and equipment as possible. In short, they're aboard, so they'll make themselves useful.
. . . so why don't we see any of this stuff? I hate the way the MACOs just pop up when needed, you'd almost think they were EMH's!
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
"Please state the nature of the military emergency," then?
Wow, that's a nice list already, Lee! I guess I haven't been paying close enough attention -- I hadn't even noticed (or remembered) that the MACOs always have nametags on their uniforms.
I did figure that they probably had some of the extras on board from week to week, but I was also kinda sidetracked because they're not always speaking parts (though sometimes they are).
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
". . . so why don't we see any of this stuff?"
For the same reason we don't see any of the characters take a crap? You know it's happening somewhere, sometime, but it's not important to the story.
Posted by Capped in Mic (Member # 709) on :
i wonder if Hayes is the only officer of the group.. how big a military force would have a captain or lieutenant as squad leaders, rather than a full major (unless Hayes is really a captain but is called major because of that old 'there can only be one captain on a ship' naval parlance)
quote:Originally posted by TSN:
". . . so why don't we see any of this stuff?"
For the same reason we don't see any of the characters take a crap? You know it's happening somewhere, sometime, but it's not important to the story.
plus continuity buffs would display self-righteous fecal outrage when the crap in the toilet was light brown in one shot, then the next scene as Shatner stands it is suddenly apple green ARE WE TO BELIEVE THERE IS MAGIC COLOR CHANGING SHIT IN THE FUTURE?? I WILL WRITE OF THIS IN MY NEXT FAQ!! IT WAS ESTABLISHED IN BROKEN BOW THAT VULCAN WOMENS SHIT DOESNT STINK SO WHY DOES SEASON 3 TPOL CRAP STINK CHANGED PREMISE PILOT SERIES!!?!?!?
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:unless Hayes is really a captain but is called major because of that old 'there can only be one captain on a ship' naval parlance
I thought Heinlein made that up.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I'm not saying we should see "A Day In The Life of a MACO," just, much as we often see random crewmembers in the background of scenes, be it in a corridor, the messhall or a cargo bay, wouldn't it be good to see the occasional MACO doing something, anything, apart from only popping out of nowhere heavily armed whenever the shit hits the fan? Woods and Money seem to be their regular in-house MACO extras (although she's actually a stuntwoman) so why not utilise them?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'd like to see this too. I think the only casual MACO encounter we've seen was in "The Xindi" when Hoshi schmoozed with them in the Mess.
Reading the SEAL's comments above, I think a great opener for an ep. would be for the MACOs to be practicing a rescue. T'Pol or Hoshi are tied up and Malcolm's going all nuts on them with a Phase Pistol and we're supposed to think that he's gone looney between shows... but see, he hasn't... cause it's only pretend. Get it?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
We can dream. . .
OK, after much tedious trawling through of .avi files, I've revised the list, now by rank and alphabetical order:-
Major D. (?) Hayes (Steven Culp) - "The Xindi," "The Shipment," "Harbinger," "Hatchery."
***
Sergeant Kemper (Nathan Anderson) - "The Xindi," "Anomaly."
***
Corporal Chang (Daniel Dae Kim) - "The Xindi," "Extinction," "Hatchery."
1. Ryan. . . well, it sure looks like him every time.
2. I have this nightmare where the guy who I've been identifying as Woods turns out to be a different actor every time, and I get accused of being a racist because "all black men look alike." But I'm sure it's him, and if it isn't then we're going to end up with about 30 different MACOs in a crew of 80.
3. We won't know who Kevin Derr plays until we see "Hatchery" - if Woods appears but not Hammond, or vice versa, then that's that problem solved. If they both still appear, then I'd be inclined to say it's Hammond because Woods hasn't been credited in any of his other eps. Make sense?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I'm not saying we should see "A Day In The Life of a MACO," just, much as we often see random crewmembers in the background of scenes, be it in a corridor, the messhall or a cargo bay, wouldn't it be good to see the occasional MACO doing something, anything, apart from only popping out of nowhere heavily armed whenever the shit hits the fan?"
Well, the thing is, the camera typically follows the main characters around. How often do you think the main characters pop into the middle of a MACO training exercise? Especially to do something important to the plot.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Don't be obtuse, Timothy. We're talking about background characters doing stuff. They didn't exactly explain what that crewmember was doing when she chose to walk down that wrong corridor at the wrong time on the last episode, did they? She was just there. I'm saying we should at least see more instances of MACOs being 'just there.'
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, I'm not saying we shouldn't see one walk down the hallway in the background once in a while. But you seemed to be saying you wanted to see them doing MACO-y things. And while I'm sure they could figure out an excuse to incorporate something like that, I just don't think it's particularly strange that we wouldn't see it.
And, actually, I haven't seen the last episode yet. They decided to go back to new episodes the one week I didn't bother to check whether there was going to be a rerun or not, so I'll have to catch it Saturday.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Hell, walking down the hallway, doing MACOey things, doing their laundry, ANYTHING! They're only a quarter of the crew, granted, and for sure we probably never saw a representative slice of, say, Voyager's crew - half of them could've been dwarves for all we know - but I'd just like to see something that suggests they're more than just EMHs - Emergency Marine Holograms. 8)
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
They're Power Rangers. To the general public, they're never seen until the monsters come to town.
Mark
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
Uh-OH! Better get MACO!
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
A major does seem slightly high ranking to have in charge of c.15 people.
Although I suppose they wouldn't really want a young, relatively inexperienced Lieutenant in charge of a team that may be involved in sensitive missions. So the set up on Enterprise may not be representative of the standard MACO organisation.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
What kind of organisation is MACO anyway? Is it part of Starfleet? Does it normally do things in space? And who came up with such a ridiculous name?
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Yes, you can spot the MACO, but can you spot the OMAC?
(obscure comic book reference)
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
VERY obscure: even to Kirby fans.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: What kind of organisation is MACO anyway? Is it part of Starfleet? Does it normally do things in space? And who came up with such a ridiculous name?
Good questions, which I will deal with in random order. Why? Beacause I want to.
The name is silly, but giving ridiculous names to military organisations and equipment is a noted American trait, often refered to as Pentagonspeak.
I wouldn't have said it's part of Starfleet; using two differing rank structures withing the same oraganisation doesn't seem to make much sense. It isn't usually done in modern militaries either; eg. the RAF regiment uses RAF ranks rather than army ones, despite being basically an army unit. As to whether the MACO's usually do stuff in space I would think so. Was there any mention of special training given to them for space ops? It's possible ther're some kind of planetary/system security organisation, sort of a cross between the Marines and Customs and Excise.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I believe MACO really is the Starfleet version of the Marine Corps. And that it operates under the Department of Starfleet, much in the same way the Marines operate under the Navy Department (at least here in America).
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The MACOs are NOT Starfleet. They pretty much say that in "The Expanse", when Forrest asks Archer if he's comfortable "taking military on board". Whatever they are, they're not Starfleet, and while they've taken zero-G training they're not hardened space vets. In "The Xindi" there is reference of at least one of them being space sick.
Mark
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
That's what Dat's saying -- the US Marines are likewise not the Navy. They just end up working together in many circumstances, depending on the need.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I could've sworn I read somewhere recently where someone had worked out the Babylon 5 rank structure, and how they all fitted in order - Mjor was above Lietenant but below Lt. Commander, Commander and Captain. I think. The weird thing is I just tried to find it again, but can't. I thought it was here but obviously not - although this isn't the first time things have mysteriously vanished from the IMDb.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"That's what Dat's saying -- the US Marines are likewise not the Navy. They just end up working together in many circumstances, depending on the need."
Yeah, but they're still both military. If Forrest referred to "military" as a distinctly separate entity, we can assume Starfleet in the 2150s is considered to definitely be non-military. It would seem strange for a military organization to be a division of an only-sort-of-related non-military organization. It would be like if the US Air Force were a division of the FAA.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I'm guessing this Starfleet is the incarnation closest to today's NASA than any we've seen - and at that, it's the NASA of the 60s and 70s. All dedicated explorers, and scientists second. Many may have a military background, but aren't categorically military themselves (anymore, at least). Hence, when they NEED the military, they're brought on board.
Mark
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: I could've sworn I read somewhere recently where someone had worked out the Babylon 5 rank structure
quote: Yeah, but they're still both military. If Forrest referred to "military" as a distinctly separate entity, we can assume Starfleet in the 2150s is considered to definitely be non-military.
Although military used to be used to refer purely to land based armed forces. But the liklihood of English regressing to 18th Century definitions is probably minimal...
I doubt MACO is part of Starfleet, but presumeably they must have some sort of transport for getting around. So MACO could be the Earth armed forces, with no real long range ships, detachments of which are occasionally placed on Starfleet (civilian explorers, but often armed- think East India Company ships)
Oh, and I really don't think the blended Navy/Army rank structure is a good idea to apply to Starfleet/MACO. It's just too screwy. Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
MACO...we'll paint any starship for $99.99 credits. Now featuring our "Ambassador" service for $299.99
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Spike - no, that wasn't it.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
It is done. Now never mention it to me again, I wish I'd never thought of it. . .
Wow... So we're talking at least twenty-five, and probably more. Given the previously-established notion that Enterprise was still flying around with about the same number of people aboard, they probably don't ahve much more than that many MACOs on board. We're talking almost a third of the crew now!
Rumour has it that there will be an episode that deals with losing lots of the crew. Who knows - Spike's work will prove pretty useful. Well done, man!
Mark
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Captain Mike always makes me laugh.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Spike's work will prove pretty useful.
What did I do?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Sorry, I meant Lee. Spike. Lee. Spike Lee. Hey, I get it now! HAW!
Mark
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Awesome job, Lee! I'm going to have to use that as a major reference for writing a Memory Alpha article. (Assuming you don't want to do it, that is. )
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Alas, poor Lee. I knew him, Minutio . . . a man of infinite twitchings and cursings of MACOs.
Dude, nice job . . . scary, but nice.
(Not like I have room to talk, but still.)
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Thanks, I think. I might do the Memory Alpha article, I have a day release coming up soon and my psychiatrist thinks it might do me good. . . Narf!
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Well done, man!![[Razz]](tongue.gif)