I was browsing eBay's auction of Rick's sketches, and came across a design I hadn't seen before. It looks like it could have been a preliminary design for the Pegasus, made out of Ambassador pieces.
Funky...I thought the Pegasus was originally supposed to be a Cheyenne-like ship?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It's a mirandized Ambassador class. Kinda cool.
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
Looks more like a Nebula-style Ambassador variant to me. Still, it would have been great if they'd been able to use it for the Pegasus; compared to all the Galaxy-based designs, there's a curious lack of similar variants for the Ambassador (at least ones that haven't been blown to smithereens by the Borg, that is).
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Apollo-class. Proof. Yes.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I knew someone was gonna bring that up!
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
Wasn't there supposed to be a design using Ambassador parts that Sternbach did for Cause and Effect, before the design was relegated to a Miranda redress?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
No, I believe the Bozeman was originally supposed to be a TOS Constitution class ship (presumably with a better name than "Bozeman").
About this concept art: The TNG Companion states that the Pegasus was supposed to be a new model based on the Ambassador-class era design. It didn't say anything about it having four nacelles, or that it was based on the Cheyenne class. I think some people got that impression because of a panel showing what looked like two nacelle pairs, but it could have easily been something else.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm almost positive that the Soyuz class was originally supposed to be a completely new model. They had to cut corners by adding onto the Miranda. I doubt it was supposed to use Ambassador parts, though. That would've made it too new for the uniforms they used.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Y'know what that reminds me of. The Curry. Especially the nacelles.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Has anyone seen the AGT Klingon cruiser sketch yet? Looks like it was originally going to be a modified Vor'cha, but then decided to make it completely from scratch. Funny, it usually happens the other way round.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Y'know what that reminds me of. The Curry. Especially the nacelles.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I'm sold. I'll build that as soon as i can dig up another 2500th Ambassador kit. ...although I think I'll angle the nacelle pylons (like the Miranda's) and shape the deflector more like a rounded triangle with pointing down.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Hope this isn't too much of a tangent, but have you seen some of hte other sketches there? Concepts for whackloads of ships, phasers, and the like. Wow!
Mark
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:I'm almost positive that the Soyuz class was originally supposed to be a completely new model. They had to cut corners by adding onto the Miranda. I doubt it was supposed to use Ambassador parts, though. That would've made it too new for the uniforms they used.
I remember when "Trials & Tribble-ations" came out, someone had stated that they were finally able to show a model of the TOS Enterprise, something that they were going to do in "Cause & Effect" (presumably with another Connie, not Kirk's). However, unlike with the DS9 episode which was produced during Star Trek's 30th anniversary or whatever, at the time of TNG it was cost-prohibitive to do this because:
1. They would have had to pay Greg Jein a lot of money to build a model which would have been used for only one episode (since a TOS Connie wouldn't be a viable "guest starship" in future episodes of TNG;
2. They would have had to spend a lot of money building a TOS bridge set for the conversation between Picard & Bateson, which again, they wouldn't be able to use in future TNG eps; and
3. The costume department would have to make all new TOS uniforms, which, yet again, wouldn't be able to be used past the one episode. So instead TPTB...
1. paid Gein a much smaller amount to just add some doodads to the Reliant model;
2. Reused the movie Enterprise bridge, which IIRC was still being used for the Trek films; and
3. Reused old movie uniforms for Kelsey Grammer & the extras.
Posted by Darth_DotCom (Member # 986) on :
Not much to work on, but I definetely get a Miranda evolution feel from the concept art. The biggest thing missing is the over slug torpedo array; which seems to be a mandatory element of a lot of the underslung nacelles assemblies. The biggest problem I have with this idea is the engineering hulll seems to make the ship "feel" unbalanced. I can see why people are getting a Shelley/Curry class vibe off this ship, but the Shelley/Curry looked a lot more balanced in my opinion.
I dug up a old 1701-C line drawing someone e-mailed me a couple years back and kitbashed it together into a rough idea of what the class might look like. You can see it here, it's in the "Kitbashes" folder . The nacelles are completely wrong, that's a given, but for a rough idea, they'll do. I'll work on something a little better once I get the time. All in all it could be a interesting variant from the rarely seen Ambassador Class era, but it needs some tweaking to look better.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Good! The Soyuz is far better looking than yet another tired ass Connie or Connie refit!
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Has anyone seen the AGT Klingon cruiser sketch yet? Looks like it was originally going to be a modified Vor'cha, but then decided to make it completely from scratch. Funny, it usually happens the other way round.
The Negh'Var ended up being a highly modified Vor'Cha. With certain angles, you can still see the Vor'Cha wing lines with the Negh'Var extensions out front. The Negh'Var seems to be a Vor'Cha mold with a lot of new additions on it. --
As for the Bozeman issue, even if it were Ambassador era parts, The uniforms wouldn't have been a problem. The Enterprise-C uniforms were jsut the movie uniforms anyway without the undershirt.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Only $80,000 for the Enterprise helm, eh?
That should be in a museum somewhere, really. Hey, Paul Allen!
Sternbach was auctioning some drawings off after the end of Voyager personally, as I recall. Some neat things up for grab in that one too. Though it is kind of, vaguely, very vaguely, depressing. In some way. Like, the letter saying "We like your stuff!" is something I would keep, were it addressed to me. But perhaps I am overly sentimental. Is anyone planning on making a bid for something?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Or this? Maybe the weapon the soon-to-be-vaporized scientist has down on Regulus, I guess, though I was always under the impression it was just another phaser.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by SoundEffect:
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Has anyone seen the AGT Klingon cruiser sketch yet? Looks like it was originally going to be a modified Vor'cha, but then decided to make it completely from scratch. Funny, it usually happens the other way round.
The Negh'Var ended up being a highly modified Vor'Cha. With certain angles, you can still see the Vor'Cha wing lines with the Negh'Var extensions out front. The Negh'Var seems to be a Vor'Cha mold with a lot of new additions on it.
I actually bid on that! Almost no chance I'll win though.... Did you see his sketch of the talarian warship? MUCH cooler than the filming model! I think I'll follow the sketch more than the model for the version I'm building. Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Spike:This might interest you. Finnegan's Academy patch and Pike's badge.
And here's a closeup of the Exeter patch.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
That dude's even wearing a different coloured shirt...
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Wasn't he the CMO of the Exeter...
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Wouldn't he have had a red cross, then?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I mean its been a while, a long long while since I have seen the episode...but he's the CMO they saw review logs trying to ascertain why the crew died or how to make an antidote to the aging 'disease of the week'...
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The CMO doesn't wear a red cross - McCoy and I think M'Benga had the Sciences emblem. Only Chapel wore the cross. And medical personnel typically wear tunics that differ from the regular uniforms. This one could be from Kelley's wardrobe, or a random item from the closet that produced the Finnegan uniform etc.
The "Apollo" sketch by Sternbach would have been dramatically less suited for "The Pegasus" than the tiny Oberth was. The bigger the ship, the less likely a mutiny could take place (just think how little the typical crewman aboard the E-D is even likely to know about what is going on elsewhere in the ship!), and the less likely the captain and his supporters could escape. And the cloak tests didn't call for a big ship anyway. A small one would offer better secrecy.
Of course, the Oberth wasn't ideal for the plot, either, since Riker and Pressman were supposed to flee on a shuttle. This is virtually the only time we hear there should be a shuttle aboard an Oberth (the MSD in "Hero Worship" notwithstanding).
I haven't figured out yet how to navigate eBay... Where are the other Sternbach sketches?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Umm, try "Sternbach" in the search field....
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Here's the list of items in "The Ultimate SF Auction". Ebay's navigation sucks.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Holy Crap! 7 pages...I think thaat link overdoes it a bit...if you just want Sternbach Star Trek sketches you just simply search "Sternbach" is the most basic search function and you immediately get something like 21 results (currently)...Im not sure where the bit about Ebays navigation is justified...
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
What I got was six items total, which is why I decided I wasn't doing things right. That seven-page catalog seems to have all the goods, though...
Among the cooler things: finally, a good look at the "First Duty" training craft! And it would be nice to see the details of that "Galactic map" thing (which apparently shows the multi-pseudopodded UFP and the supposed Borg territory, and possibly gives labels for the alien empires that sit between the pseudopods).
Some of the costumes are must items for the truly interested and truly affluent. Some of the props are rather embarrassing. But what is that "Wrath of Khan disruptor" thing? It looks a bit like the Klingon pistols that were used in ST5 and early TNG, sans color - but not quite.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
YOu might find Rick Sternbach's comments on the Pegasus interesting, from a topic on the TrekBBS.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: What I got was six items total, which is why I decided I wasn't doing things right. That seven-page catalog seems to have all the goods, though...
I dunno 'bout you .... currently there are 18 (as of 7:30am EST, however most end in the next 9 hrs)
Listed under this basic search... Sternbach Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I hope someone is keeping copy of all these pictures!?!
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
They are so small....
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe we could all pitch in and collectively buy these pictures and get one person to house them... Charles perhaps?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
One 8x10 scan is all we need...over breaking the pocketbook....
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Funny tidbit: the Bozeman did not have name/NCC decals on the nacelles. That is, if the severed aft end of a nacelle is representative of how the ship looked like when intact. Anybody want to purchase that piece of evidence? (I can't *believe* what sort of junk they consider worth bidding!)
(Unrelated tidbit: after rewatching "Night Terrors", I noticed further anomalies with our other favorite starship anachronism, the Br*ttain. Not only is the name spelled differently on the hull and the computer screens, but the registry on the screens is different from the one printed on the railing behind the captain's chair and the aft (tactical?) station. According to the railing, the ship apparently was NCC-2166.. Perhaps a more befitting registry? Sloppy work overall, from modelmakers and set decorators alike.)
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
The label behind the Captain's Chair definately says "NCC-21166".
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
My eyes must be going. I paused the tape, I froze the screen, I watched it at different speeds, everything I could do when I couldn't grab the image itself. And the registry looked very, very four-digit to me, with just one narrow "1" there.
But I'm happy we don't have to accept yet another inconsistency. The name thing is bad enough. (And prominent enough. Damn you, Mike, for using such a big font on the screens!)
I just wonder if one of these auctions couldn't feature select pieces from Okuda's archives... Do they burn all the gels afterwards or what? There were those few E-D console tops, sure, but I was hoping for more.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Actually...regarding the Sternbach items on eBay, couldnt someone, theoretically, use Photoshop or similar program and blow these pictures up from the auction page to a utilizable size without a sweat for our viewing pleasure?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Just a quick follow up relavent to "Starships & Technology" looking at some of the completed Sternbach concept drawings, here are some of interest:
1) The Vulcan Suplus Ship (T'pau) from "Unification" ( a very Sabre/Mirandish look ) link
[ April 25, 2003, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: Topher ]
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
A couple rules in the Flare handbook of posting images:
1. Images that are very wide should not be posted inline.
2. You should never, ever post inline images that aren't hosted on your own server or FlareUpload. This is bandwidth theft and frowned upon by most webmasters.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
I just realized that 3D model of the T'Pau has been used somewhere else. Anyone who has The Art of Star Trek might recognize it from the 3D CGI model of DS9 made from the beginning of the show, its on the first few pages of the DS9 section of the book.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: But I'm happy we don't have to accept yet another inconsistency. The name thing is bad enough. (And prominent enough. Damn you, Mike, for using such a big font on the screens!)
I think you mean, "Damn you, ILM, for giving the original Reliant model such big letters on the saucer". Or alternatively, "Damn you, Greg, for making such a silly mistake". After all, Mike was the one who spelt it correctly...
What I find especially ironic about the whole thing is that there's a really proper close up of the top of the saucer, and, in 7 years of TNG, I don't think we get a shot like that on any other ship (apart from the Ent-D at the very beginning).
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Among the cooler things: finally, a good look at the "First Duty" training craft!
I'm tracing it for some nice colour schematics as we speak It would help if I had larger scans though, anyone fancy trying to scam the seller into providing some? Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Has someone saved all these pics from EBAY? 'cause I can't find 'em.
Andrew
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Funny tidbit: the Bozeman did not have name/NCC decals on the nacelles. That is, if the severed aft end of a nacelle is representative of how the ship looked like when intact. Anybody want to purchase that piece of evidence? (I can't *believe* what sort of junk they consider worth bidding!)
DOn't know about that fragment, but you can see in this pic that the model did indeed have the registry on both the inboard and outboard faces of the nacelles.
-MMoM Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
So many PADD's, so little cash.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Topher: A couple rules in the Flare handbook of posting images:
1. Images that are very wide should not be posted inline.
2. You should never, ever post inline images that aren't hosted on your own server or FlareUpload. This is bandwidth theft and frowned upon by most webmasters.
Whatever gets you off at night...
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Funny tidbit: the Bozeman did not have name/NCC decals on the nacelles. That is, if the severed aft end of a nacelle is representative of how the ship looked like when intact. Anybody want to purchase that piece of evidence? (I can't *believe* what sort of junk they consider worth bidding!)
DOn't know about that fragment, but you can see in this pic that the model did indeed have the registry on both the inboard and outboard faces of the nacelles.
-MMoM
Keep in mind that they didn't blow up that model. They probably just neded some of the usual debries IIRC, we didn't even see the Bozeman blowing up, so the scene may have been altered prior to filming or this one is part of another Miranda or similar vessel that has been bown up over the years (Saratoga anyone?) and Rick Sternbach just confused them (I guess it was him who told the guys at ebay what it is. If not and this information comes from ebay directly or someone lese, we shouldn't even think about it being right.)
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Whatever gets you off at night...
Those are the rules. Please adhere to them. Thank you, good day. Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
He's quite correct, y'know. It's just common etiquette not to screw up people's browser windows by posting huge wide images, or to screw up their sites by stealing their bandwidth.
-MMoM Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I'm sure MinutiaeMan could vouch for bandwidth troubles... Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
The size was annoying, indeed, but the pictures were linked from ebay. I mean, OK, the rules say no linking of any picture, but it's not that ebay would care for these bandwidth issues. Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Oh, man..I thought I downloaded all the pics of the starships from Ebay, but I missed the nacelle-part from the Bozeman. Did one of you download it and would you be willing to post it here? It seems to have disappeared from Ebay, guess the bidding is over.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Starship Freak - can you put the E-Bay pictures on Flare upload!?! And then link them here!
Thanks
Andrew
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: He's quite correct, y'know. It's just common etiquette not to screw up people's browser windows by posting huge wide images, or to screw up their sites by stealing their bandwidth.
-MMoM
Ahem, you might want to consider looking on this page and apologizing to Bernd then....(and I mean this in the nicest way possible)
Consider too, and I know this is besides the point, eBay profits from the 1st quarter of this year are $104.2 million, I dont think they mind some bandwidth "theft" because they don't really seem to care about much more than their own profit anyway....
Bare in mind, if you link to this site from another you get a nice little "surprise" and ebay is making over 100,000,000x more profit, thus far this year, than this site (or Bernds), then if they really cared then they would have put some "surprises" of their own into effect.
So down with the man, man! Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Actually those pictures weren't on eBay, rather on the server of the seller.
And I don't think Bernd minds. Its one of the reasons for his site to exist and he's a regular poster.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Now, back to the point I was trying to make earlier, before we got off track, as this here seems to be a rather interesting tidbit for those of you design junkies:
Sternbach T'Pau concept (ca. 1992):
Sabre Class (ca. 1997):
Coincidence??
BTW, who designed the Sabre (Im not too up on my behind-the-scenes people)?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Alex Jaeger designed all of the new ships seen in FC. He very well could have been influenced by Sternbach's sketch there, or it could be a pure coincidence. Stranger things have happened.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
I think the T'Pau is backwords though. Assuming he copied the design of the nacelles from the TMP Vulcan Shuttle, the narrow end would be at the front. This would mean the narrow end of the body would be the front.
Here is an image of the T'Pau docked at DS9 in this 1992 CGI model. You can see it on the leftmost panels on a bottom pylon, and on the most right panels you can see it again (with one of them being a shot from the bottom).
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy:
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: He's quite correct, y'know. It's just common etiquette not to screw up people's browser windows by posting huge wide images, or to screw up their sites by stealing their bandwidth.
-MMoM
Ahem, you might want to consider looking on this page and apologizing to Bernd then....(and I mean this in the nicest way possible)
Jesus...how long did you search for that thing?
[EDIT]: I see no inline images on that page...
-MMoM Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
Got enough smiley's there?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
No, he doesn't have the or the ones in there. Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Kyle: Thanks very much AndrewR: Sorry, won�t be at my home computer for a month Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
Jesus...how long did you search for that thing?
[EDIT]: I see no inline images on that page... -MMoM
Came across it by chance looking for that sabre pic I found above ... and it seems you are only allowed 8 smilies per post...thats an odd limitation, especially on an emoticonional day
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I remember mentioning the similarities between the T'Pau concept and the Sabre on rec.arts.startrek.tech a few years ago. Neither Rick nor Michael responded
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
or the ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
