I've spent some time and attention reworking the flying wing/challenger-class/iceland-class from Enterprise. I think I've got it VERY close this time. I wanted to show you what I've finished, with the realizationthat I still have a ventral view to do, and coloring to do.
Not sure your fore view of the bridge matches your elevation view, though. And, also in the elevation view, it looks like you have an over-extended line near the afte end of the nacelle.
-MMoM Posted by Manticore (Member # 1227) on :
Why are the bussards blue...?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Oh, drool! I love it.
The only crit I have is about the name: Technically, it should be the Iceland-type (assuming the Iceland is even the name of the ship, which it isn't necessarily). The class would be NV-Class or whatever the letters are in the registry, according to the Earth Starfleet's registry system.
But that's a really awesome set of orthos. Deckplans! Deckplans!
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Very, very nice! But could you do a version of the site view with the starboard nacelle where it's supposed to be? That would be very useful for reference charts! Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
Guys,
I've modified the orthos, taking into account your comments. The bridge module on the fore view should now parallel that of the side view. I fixed the nacelle outline glitch as well. I added another side view that shows the starboard nacelle in place.
The nacelle end caps, both fore and aft, glow blue in the show, so that's why I used it. I don't know if they're supposed to be bussard ramscoops or not. I'm just drawing it as I sees it. It is possible that, in the visible absence of a navigational deflector on the front of the ship. that there are actually two navigational deflectors, one on the front end of each nacelle.
I realize we don't know the names of any of these ships, much less the class-ship. Yet, people usually either refer to it as one of the three names, so that's why I used those names.
"The nacelle end caps, both fore and aft, glow blue in the show..."
Uh, theydo?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Odd. I remembered blue, too. At least you've got the end caps right
Absolutely rockin' man.
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
Wow. How come I dont even remember this ship?
I saw the episode, i just dont remember seeing it.
Mabye I was drunk.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Oh, drool! I love it.
The only crit I have is about the name: Technically, it should be the Iceland-type (assuming the Iceland is even the name of the ship, which it isn't necessarily). The class would be NV-Class or whatever the letters are in the registry, according to the Earth Starfleet's registry system.
But that's a really awesome set of orthos. Deckplans! Deckplans!
To coin a phrase: "LOL."
The Iceland-class moniker is simply a joke which originated on this board, referring to the fact that the design looked to some like an abbreviated Norway-class. It seems to have caught on like Mark's Shelley-class designation for the Curry.
-MMoM Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
By the way, I know the Iceland is grey, but can anyone see in there a tinge of another color in the hull that they feel needs to be represented in my orthos?
Posted by Manticore (Member # 1227) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: To coin a phrase: "LOL."
The Iceland-class moniker is simply a joke which originated on this board, referring to the fact that the design looked to some like an abbreviated Norway-class. It seems to have caught on like Mark's Shelley-class designation for the Curry.
-MMoM
Which I never understood--I don't see any Norway in there... Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
It took me some figuring out as well...but I now see what they were talking about. It does look somewhat like a Norway saucer with the nacelles and pylons brought forward.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
MMoM: I remember that you made it up, and I'm fine with the designation. I think it's a cool name for the ship. Which really irritates me, because whoever's in charge of designing these ships should've given them names and registries. I don't understand why that was so hard to do.
"OK... the Enterprise is NX Class... Let's make this one NU-Class in case we want to show the Enterprise's immediate predecessor someday. Oh, and let's actually name the ship while we're at it." Boom. Done. Not hard at all.
Posted by Manticore (Member # 1227) on :
Oh, I'm sure that there's a name used somewhere by the production staff. Maybe the "Piece of Flying sh*t?" Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Very nice, Irishman! One thing that bugs me though is the lower hemisphere (not the sensor dome, but the part of the hull it's attached to). I didn't think it was that prominent. Are there any decent screencaps of the bottom? Personally, I would think that it wouldn't be sticking out from the rest of hull as much since the hull looks like it is a lifting body.
B.J.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: MMoM: I remember that you made it up, and I'm fine with the designation. I think it's a cool name for the ship. Which really irritates me, because whoever's in charge of designing these ships should've given them names and registries. I don't understand why that was so hard to do.
"OK... the Enterprise is NX Class... Let's make this one NU-Class in case we want to show the Enterprise's immediate predecessor someday. Oh, and let's actually name the ship while we're at it." Boom. Done. Not hard at all.
I, Sir, most certainly DID NOT make that up. I'm no fan of these unofficial nicknames that seem to be all the rage 'round here, and I agree with you whole-heartedly on the idea that they ought to give more ship information on the show. Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Wait... what did I say now?
*re-reads*
OK... sorry... I was remembering that you were correct about it being a name that got made up here. Didn't mean to say you specifically came up with it. I don't remember who did, but I do remember the thread.
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
Guys,
Working on some small changes, and a couple big ones, just to present for asthetic choices, and the ventral view. I'm going to put an NX-01 style shuttle launch bay right behind the lower hemisphere, and work out the overall thickness issues using deck heights as a guide. (3 m deck height, overall 120 m length)
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
A launch bay would be cool. Maybe it should only have two doors instead of four since it's supposed to be older and probably smaller.
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
Aban, Yes, smaller, probably a crew of 30 or less. Yet, it has no transporter, unlike the NX-01. So, shuttlepods would be their only mode of mass transport.
Two? Three? Four?
Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
I don't think they will give names or registries to these ships. When we did see a model of one of these ships, I think the Intrepid,from the front at close viewing, the ship had no name or registry. This would have been a good time to put such information on the ship.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yes, it would have. But they didn't, because why bother with little details that the fans would absolutely love?
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Could have been pressed for time the first time they used the model. If they model their markings onto the hull rather than textureing them, it can cause issues which take time to repair
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
So was "Iceland" mentioned in any way in a script or behind the scenes?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
No. I think it got its start because someone compared it to the Norway... Doth I remember correctly fellows?
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
That's what I believe happened.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Sshhh! If they find out it was my idea, they'll never go for it! 8)
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
From STAR TREK COMMUNICATOR - FEB/MAR '04 - Page 71:
quote: Q. "In the Enterprise episode "The Expanse," what were the three classes of the ships that came to the aid of the Enterprise when she was fighting the Klingons, and what were the ships' names?"
A. "The writers on the show do not have the time to fill in the blanks on the various series' history and technology. Would that they could, as the show would be far more consistent, but it would be impossible to do and write 26 scripts a year. Since the classes and names of those ships would have been entirely irrelevant to the story, what would have been the point in coming up with that sort of information?"
As taken from Richard Arnold: a fan of Star Trek from the beginning, assisted Gene Roddenberry for 15 years at his Paramount offices and still makes his living as an expert on the franchise.... blah blah...and that is why, it is supposedly felt that those ships were not given designations. The script didn't call for it.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
"Since the classes and names of those ships would have been entirely irrelevant to the story, what would have been the point in coming up with that sort of information?"
Ummm... for the same reason they gave the Wolf359 ships names. Comments like that really piss me off. The point is, it makes the fans giz their pants. That's all. We all know that. So let's make the fans feel like dorks for asking by printing some retard answer.
Okuda and crew were fans of what they were doing and it showed in how they went about it. Don't tell me there's no point.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Maybe Okuda might give them names sometime in the future.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Hopefully.
I mean... ok... this is still getting me wriled. The show is about the early adventures of humanity into space and the starships are very obviously the means by which they're doing that. They've already shown that the history of the technology is important as it was the whole point of the NX-01. Now, I'm not saying they have to be Tolkien and come up with deck plans and construction histories for ships we only hear mention of in the background over the com... but don't TELL me there's no point in being curious about the history of this stuff.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
First of all, don't shoot the messenger.
Anyway, I agree with you, and I recall reading what I quoted above and thought it was such bullshit. But then again, I would rather have them spend an extra hour tweaking a mediocre script rather than coming up with names to all the ships we've ever viewed - if that is truely the case.
The other thing in comparing the Wolf 359 ships with the Earth ships is that the 359 ships were physical models...the latter are CGI (right?), that could have something to do with it too.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Oh, I'm mad at them, not you
And you would think that a physical model would be harder to redress and add detail to than a CGI ship.
It also wouldn't seem that it would be that hard to come up with these details. We know that Enterprise is NX Class... so... ummm... the ones before it are probably going to be something similar, yes?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
The only way I could see it happening is if Enterprise is for some reason 'blind' and their sensors pick up an incoming ship and they say something like "its configuration identifies it as an NU class, USS Crapshoot". But that only happened a handful of times in all the past series...namely, the Bozeman, the Valiant, the Enterprise, the Enterprise-C, the Enterprise-E, etc.
So they have been consistant about never readily identified classes "by name", and there are still a few that have not been identified (Centaur). Those that have been were in some behind the scenes document or at the least, long after the fact.
Think about "Miranda", there is still a small crazy pocket of fools who think the Miranda is an Avenger, you'd think in TPTB cared they would have straightened that out a long time ago.
Besides, right now, I think they are more worried about saving the ass of their series than naming a few ships. (Don't get me wrong, I want to see these puppies named too!) Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Well, our best hope is still Okuda.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
I'd gladly accept a name that Okuda tells us was given to the design(s) behind the scenes. But maybe there is really none, or just a "funny" name like Alka-selsior.
Posted by japol (Member # 1149) on :
Seems to me that other than Enterprise and Shenandoah a bunch of the Starfleet ship names are from the early American space program.
ie: Intrepid (Apollo 12 Lunar Module) Columbia aka NX-02 (Apollo 11 Command Module, Space Shuttle)
Actually, other than it being a pretty name, Shenandoah was one of the US Navy's first commissioned airships when they were playing with those. Her sister ship was the Akron... which I thought sounded cool too, though not as pretty.
So when some folks are calling this design Challenger-class it makes some sense to me (Space Shuttle & Apollo 17 LEM)... Iceland is cute, but somehow doesn't feel right. But I've no problem with people using the name for clarification. Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Intrepid: American warships Saratoga: American warships Enterprise: American and British warships Shenandoah: American airship Columbia: Alternate name for America
Your theory doesn't really work.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Columbia and Shenandoah could also indicate a "geography" theme, where Iceland would fit just fine... Akron, too, is a location - in Ohio.
Akron (ZRS-4) was actually sister to the airship-fightercarrier Macon (ZRS-5); the Shenandoah (ZR-1) was a rather different design.Rounding out the list of rigid airship names would be Los Angeles (ZR-3). I think there never was a ship designated ZR-2...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Do you think the design of the new ships was ment to be an in-joke for those who complained about the Enterprise looking like an Akira-class ship? Because I think this ship looks more like the Saber than the Norway - apart from the arrow-head saucer there isn't anything that looks Norwayish.
Does anyone have contact with the guys who are in charge of the effects? Maybe they can tell us more (AFAIR Eden isn't in charge of the effects any more. Some other company took over after season two.)
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I remember reading somewhere after the ships were first seen that they were little more than shapes put together and textured. I think that's probably a simplification, but I don't think they had time to put the "in-joke" factor into them.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Reguards the Richard Arnold statement - seeing as they are NOT making 26 episodes for season 3 - they could have used their 'time' to come up with names for those ships. Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Columbia and Shenandoah could also indicate a "geography" theme, where Iceland would fit just fine... Akron, too, is a location - in Ohio.
Akron (ZRS-4) was actually sister to the airship-fightercarrier Macon (ZRS-5); the Shenandoah (ZR-1) was a rather different design.Rounding out the list of rigid airship names would be Los Angeles (ZR-3). I think there never was a ship designated ZR-2...
Timo Saloniemi
Of course, the Los Angeles was originally LZ-126, which could link it to LZ-127 (Graf Zeppelin), LZ-129 (Hindenburg), and LZ-130 (Graf Zeppelin II).
(Curious, how there alway seems to be a "gap" in the numbering of rigid airships...)
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: Do you think the design of the new ships was ment to be an in-joke for those who complained about the Enterprise looking like an Akira-class ship? Because I think this ship looks more like the Saber than the Norway - apart from the arrow-head saucer there isn't anything that looks Norwayish.
That idea has crossed my mind a couple of times...
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Is it just me or does the aft end of that ship look like it could be the one from the opening credits with some small modifications (like added boosters instead of impulse engines)?
That "credits ship" is also very similar in concept and design to the Conestoga from Terra Nova, even down to the "booster" bank.
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
Well, there are some similarities... but it also looks somewhat like a Star Destroyer with nacelles and no bridge.
About the credits sequence, check this feature at startrek.com:
After Phoenix, subsequent starships attained higher warp speeds and extended man's reach even further into our galaxy.
This ship, flying over an Earth colony, represents humanity's continuing expansion beyond our home planet.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
wasn't the footage at 00:45 also used in TOS's "Assignment: Earth"
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I always thought that ship in the credits had a saucer on the front of it...? Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
The ship in the credits *does* have a saucer on the front of it. Back the video up a couple of frames from the one shown in the posted pic above and it's easier to see.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
It does.
Posted by jesus X (Member # 1201) on :
It does? Anyone have a cap? I never noticed it...
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Not the best demonstration, just watch closely during the opening credits and it becomes clearer.
-MMoM Posted by jesus X (Member # 1201) on :
Hmm, interesting. I just looked it over. It DOES look like a slightly larger arrowhead at the front edge... Man if we could get some shots of the model they used...
Posted by jesus X (Member # 1201) on :
MMoM: Dude, that's the EXACT frame I have up right now! Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
I'm guessing that it's not a full saucer, rather something more like the Iceland-class, but a more primitive ancestor. The Iceland does have a saucer component on the ventral side, where the sensor package is centered. If you look at the rest of the rear of the intro ship, you'll notice that it shares major features with the Iceland (namely the continuous curve from nacelle pylon on the port side to the starboard side, and the shallow oval profile of the aft hull). My guess is that it represents a ship of that lineage, smaller, which functioned as an escort to ships like the Conestoga. The various sublight engine exhausts point to a hybrid-propulsion system, perhaps switching over from an older system with punch to a newer, more efficient one with more room to evolve. (Think gas-electric hybrid cars)
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
This might have come up before, but isn't Archer's dad painting a model of the second-last-ship-in-the-credits at the beginning of Broken Bow? Wouldn't that tell us exactly what shape it is?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
People say no, but I think it might be, albight a stylised version of it.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I don't think the model ship Johnny Archer paints in the pilot looks anything like the one in the credits. They're probably not related at all when you consider that A) The people responsible for creating the opening credits sequence weren't the same people who created physical props for the show and B) The credits sequence was likely created long after the pilot episode was shot.
Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
Whether Archer's model is the same or not(I don't think so myself), the opening titles ship was obviously designed only as that to begin with.
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