Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
You stand corrected. They're independent. OR, after checking wiki, we can say they're in fact administratively within the Dept. of the Navy.
I'm not saying it's not wrong to toss a puppy off a cliff. I'm saying people get enraged over this, and accept all the other horrors of war, and that is wrong and very odd.
Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: I don't recall ever saying it was ok to bomb hospitals or kill people. I think it's awful. And so is throwing a defenseless puppy off a cliff just for a laugh. They're in the middle of a war, with people trying to kill them, supposedly fighting for the security of the American people... and they're throwing friggin'; dogs off cliffs for kicks. You'd think they'd have better things to do.
Indeed. Warfare, even incompetent warfare is one thing, wilful cruelty to animals is something else. Still, like I said before it's not surprising and I defy anyone who has spent any amount of time around soldiers of any description to deny that there's always at least one nutter who's in it for the wrong reason, or has developed an unhealthy sense of humour. I'm not saying they're all like it, but I've met enough of this type to know they're not exactly a rare breed.
As for anyone who claims "it's just a puppy", what they did requires and abnormal lack of empathy, possibly bordering on, if not fully sociopathic. Not the kind of person you want entrusted to defend women and children.
Put it this way, if you were walking down the street and saw a bunch of cops laughing at they kicked a house cat to death, would you trust them with the live of your family and children?
More to the point this is one instance that happens to have been filmed and found it's way on to youtube, what else has gone on that we haven't seen and what have the Iraqi civilians seen them do that we haven't?
posted
That dog was a violent insurgent and had to be dealt with harshly.
Seriously, it's amazing how numb we all are to human suffering, but when it's a cute animal it's an outrage. Some asshat threw his son's puppy off a balcony here in Fort Lauderdale because his kid did not clean his room- the guy got 5 years for animal cruelty. Five. Years. Rapists serve less time. Violent drug dealers plead out to less.
Everyone loves puppies though...(shrugs)
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
It's not so much this incident that pisses me off, but the fact that it reminds me of several animal cruelty incidents in the UK I've heard of recently, where the perpetrators got very short custodial sentances.
It simply pisses me off that we have such double standards. We take animals into our social units, we think of them as parts of our familiys, but we are not prepared to accept the precipt that deliberate cruelty to animals is not as repugnant as that towards people.
In some ways it seems worse to me - you can't reason a dog. You can't send it to therapy - it will not understand why it is being abused.
This makes the abuser a coward, no better than a child abuser, for exactly the same reasons, and we have people screaming for the death penalty or castration for peadophiles.
I don't know the answer, but I do know that in the UK at least, the law is a toothless beast, with criminals unafraid of jail, or even the small fine they might get instead. There are too many criminals here, and not enough space - we nearly ran out of prison space last year.
I want us to be tough on crime here. I'm just not sure that I want to see the UK become like East Germany or Soviet Russia.
Well thats my tuppence worth.
-------------------- I have plenty of experience in biology. I bought a Tamagotchi in 1998... And... it's still alive.
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
And yet people get sent to court for letting a single piece of sausage roll fall out of a baby's mouth onto the pavement and the councils are using anti-terrorist surveillance laws to see if parents of children applying for a school are really in the catchment area and to keep tabs on people accused of leaving their bins out too early.
Welcome to the free world. If this keeps up I'm off to China, at least they're honest about repressing people.
As for people getting more upset about animals being hurt than humans, it's not that we don't care about the humans but as has been said by me and others, violence is one thing, wilful cruelty to any living being is worse and wilful cruelty to a totally defenceless living being (human, animal or otherwise) is inexcusable.
posted
Bingo. Animals animals have no concept of why they're being abused. They don't understand, they can't ask for help, they can't negotiate. People who abuse them are tiny little excuses for humanity. Cowards in the extreme.
Do you have a link for the sausage on the ground story... cause that sounds weird.
posted
It's a local thing that happened down Bournemouth I think, read about it in the local paper a few months back. We have these things called "special constables" over here, which basically means "we're not trained as coppers, but we dress and act like them" and I think this supposed "incident" was reported by some new type county council officer that's somewhere between a "Special" and a neighbourhood watch type. Basically jumped up busy bodies with delusions of authority that like to do people for littering and hanging up the union jack (because it offends the foreigners!), I can only speculate what real coppers think of them. Anyway, from memory I think the case was thrown out, mostly because there was no evidence of the offending sausage, as a seagull had it away before they could photograph it. It'd be funny if it wasn't a waste of public money, to say nothing of the surveillance culture we're living in over here.
Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
1) People in the military are trained to kill. I don't care what your original pyschological outlook; that *has* to come out at some point. Again, I'm not saying it was right, but who knows? Maybe it's not some un-empathetic psycho sickwad who wanted to toss a puppy off a cliff. Maybe it's a symptom of a massive incipient guilt complex for having killed people. I know there are members of the military on this board and I don't intend any offense - I don't know most of you well on a personal level so I couldn't intend offense even if I intended to intend offense, so to speak. But I for one would be utterly destroyed if I killed another human being, even in warfare. Maybe I'm weak, maybe I'm a pacifist, maybe I'm even wrong about it.
2) A lot of you seem to be saying that it's worse to hurt an animal because it doesn't understand. Most of my life I've been taught it's worse to hurt a person because they *do* understand. Is what side of the camp you're on about that issue simply a random, arbitrary bias or what? I mean which viewpoint is right? I honestly don't know.
3) Meh. My friend talks a lot about the so-called "New World Order" that's taking over the world with surveillance cameras and Big Government. Hey, you know, we spent most of our history living in a primate social structure which evolved into fairly totalitarian monarchies (insofar as the technology level and sociology allowed at the time) for thousands of years until democracy became widespread. The rich, noble, powerful, whatever, have *always* ruled us harshly. The difference is, most people used to be serfs or outright slaves; now that we *think* we're free, any oppression is reacted to as though the world is coming to a dark Orwellian end. I really think it's obvious that our world came from a dark Orwellian beginning - if they'd had cameras and the Internet in 500AD it would be the most fascist dystopia you could imagine. And instead of meeting in board rooms and schmoozing over golf, the ones in power would be doing it right out in the open at the banquet table while the rest of us poured their drinks. In fact, that's still what we're doing, it's just that we pretend otherwise, even fooling ourselves. ...Kay that was a hell of a lot more than I meant to type, but what the hell.
Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Reverend: As for people getting more upset about animals being hurt than humans, it's not that we don't care about the humans but as has been said by me and others, violence is one thing, wilful cruelty to any living being is worse and wilful cruelty to a totally defenceless living being (human, animal or otherwise) is inexcusable.
Just yesterday I read about some gem of a human that stomped a toddeler to death in the road. Stomped him to death- with his boots. Several people "tried to stop him" before the police arrived and put the guy down.
This story of horror has not garnered anywhere near the attention of the puppy-tossing fuckwad.
I think some things are too much to really contemplate....even too much to be outraged over. Easier to focus on a smaller horror.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Had I been at the baby stomping, I would not have "tried" to stop him. I would have stopped him. Infact, I would have shot him. On sight. Questions, if nescessary, could be asked later.
There was a case around here like 15 years ago where a crazed mother put her baby in the oven. That was on the news for like 3 days, then a brief coverage of the trial. I think she got 25-life, with the possibility of parole, because she was apparantly medicated at the time.
Humans are a race of sick bastards.
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
Registered: Jul 2007
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-------------------- "Its coming on. I just saw the wall move..."
Registered: Feb 2008
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
Yeahhh. Star trek isn't as fun for me anymore. When I was a kid I'd think, That'll be us someday. Peaceful, no war, no poverty, perfect government, perfect laws, everyone in peace and harmony and compassion. Probably not by the 2300s but SOMEDAY.
Now I just don't think that will ever, ever, ever happen. Not in a billion universes.
Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by shikaru808: Indeed. But puppies are cute.
...and low fat.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
OR, after checking wiki, we can say they're in fact administratively within the Dept. of the Navy.
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