What I am flaming about is that this group does not want to just protest at abortion clinics this time. They want to also protest several bookstores, ie Barnes and Nobles(for selling 'kiddie porn'), and some of the local gay establishments. The organizers have lost the point of their original protest. This is no longer about being anti-abortion, and pro-life. It has now turned into a Pro-Christian, anti-everthing else protest.

This is exactly why I am pro-choice. It sickens me that people like this who INSIST on forcing their beliefs on others. And now, I no longer can ignore it from a distance...It is now in my own backyard.

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Jeff Raven - Having more fun than any human being should be allowed to have

*HISS*

Besides that, abortion is cowardice. It happens because people have unprotected sex, but even then, condoms can't guarantee 100% protection from pregnancy (not to mention all those other STDs). It is no excuse to take a life if people can't handle the responsibility that comes with sex (to accomodate those who must mention rape victims, they're only 1-3% of all women who get abortions). Abortion is a surgical process that has physical risks, including making a women sterile for the rest of her years. Oftentimes the process doesn't get rid of all the body parts that the "doctor" cut up, so an arm or a leg might wind up "coming out" later. I've even heard that, after having the abortion, a woman still delivered her baby--without an arm.

The first protest made the issue clear and out in the open. Now, people SHOULD be putting their energies in fixing it...not going off to rattle more chains and pissing people off.

Believe me, these "Operation Save America" people are not going to be welcomed here. The Pro-choice community, the gay community, and even the local pro-life people aren't happy about it. But, I suppose we'll have to put up with it, tolerate them as much as we can.

University of Buffalo(where I attend school) promotes diversity, and one of the groups holds a large fair to help people coming out.

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"I'm sick, like Nixon was sick, my defeated heart keeps beating on. I won't die, like Chucky won't die."
--
They Might Be Giants

There is just too many people on this planet. It's nice to know that someone out there is doing their share of keeping the population down. What's few dead babies and doctors anyway? There's plenty to go around. We are not in any shortage of either.

If people want to protest, let them. If they are in your way, use one of the best things to come out of Isreal, the Uzi, and mow them down.

It took me a long time and more than one philosophy and ethics courses before I came up with my current stance, which is:
Uncertainty.
Personally, I don't like abortion. I'd never ask someone or encourage someone to get one. I'm not really sure why, though.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in some mythical "sanctity of life" nonsense. Life is life, whether you're a human or Mr. J.H. Paramecium. I don't believe that "life" begins at conception or that any "soul" enters the body or that an early-stage embryo is a "person." (Twinning usually occurs long after conception, so when is the extra soul added?),so my reason isn't religious.
I've seen the pictures the anti-folks use, and they are graphic. They're also from a very small percentage of actual abortions. (In fact, I have my doubts about the people that would actually dig aroud looking for that stuff, but that's another thing.) Most abortions occur before there's appreciable differentiation. So that's not my reason, either.
I don't really know what my reason is. It just is.
I also know that all things considered, I'm glad I will never be put in a position to have to make that choice. I will never be a woman. I will never become pregnant. I will, most likely, never have to raise a child, especially not on my own. I will never have to worry about bearing a child that might kill me in the birthing. Or be severely disabled. And for THOSE reasons, what someone who IS in that position chooses is none of my damned business.
Nor is it those "Save America" people's. Let them keep busy seeing that all the unwanted babies, the orphanage kids, the Down's Syndrome and other disabled kids, are adopted. Then, maybe, they can talk.
No, on second thought, put them to work on poverty next.

How long is "long"? The embryos of twins (I assume you're talking about identical twins, since fraternal ones are separate all the time) should've been split shortly after conception while they were still cell-like. I'm just trying to get this cleared up, not arguing.

so my reason isn't religious.

Read my longer post again. There is no mention of religion. I do not stand by my point because Christianity says so.

I've seen the pictures the anti-folks use, and they are graphic. They're also from a very small percentage of actual abortions.

So what happens in the "larger percentage"?

(In fact, I have my doubts about the people that would actually dig aroud looking for that stuff, but that's another thing.)

For the abortion video I saw, its people took the bodies from the trash bins in the back of abortion clinics. They just throw them away like any other trash.

Most abortions occur before there's appreciable differentiation.

Most abortions occur at 3 months into pregnancy. The heart starts beating on day 22. By the 3rd month the baby has some movement, and some argue that it can feel pain. It has all the appearances of a regular person, just smaller in size. It is not a blob of tissue.

So that's not my reason, either. I don't really know what my reason is. It just is.I also know that all things considered, I'm glad I will never be put in a position to have to make that choice. I will never be a woman. I will never become pregnant. I will, most likely, never have to raise a child, especially not on my own. I will never have to worry about bearing a child that might kill me in the birthing.

But it might be someone you care about, which could arguably hurt more.

Or be severely disabled. And for THOSE reasons, what someone who IS in that position chooses is none of my damned business.

You're damned lucky and damned ungrateful for your own birth. And that's not completely true. If and when you're married, you'd have to help your wife make that decision. You also forget that some moron boyfriends who cannot take the responsibilities of their actions force their girlfriends to get the abortion. And some parents who cannot face the humiliation force their daughters to get the abortion.

Nor is it those "Save America" people's. Let them keep busy seeing that all the unwanted babies,

There would be no unwanted babies if people were more responsible.

the orphanage kids, the Down's Syndrome and other disabled kids, are adopted.

There are actually not enough babies out there for adoption. Through conventional methods (ie, through an agency instead of privately), a couple could wait years to adopt a baby in the US. The reason is that too many pregnant young (and able) women are aborting their fetuses instead of putting them up for adoption, so those older couples who have come to want kids but can't conceive outnumber the orphaned babies.

Then, maybe, they can talk. No, on second thought, put them to work on poverty next.

Now THAT would be a very good idea indeed.

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"I have come to the conclusion that one man is called a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three on the law become a congress! And by God I have had this Congress!"
--John Adams, "1776"

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Down for Upgrade

I also have an innate distrust of anyone who feels a person or society needs "saved". A logical argument to support a viewpoint needs no threat of violence to support it. Indeed, it only serves to undermine it.

The "tagging on" of other crusades that Jeff descibed is also a nasty development. Pretty soon you reach a stage where you're doing nothing less than imposing a complete worldview on people, instead of convincing them on one issue. And that way lies the medieval notion of the "enlightened" versus the heathen.

I disapprove of abortion and I agree wholeheartedly with Ziyal. It's not a popular opinion, and it's hard to defend it, and it's a shame one has to defend the right to live in this world.

My country has gone through an emotional discussion some time ago when abortion was going to be generally legalized. The most heard argument from the free choice people, maybe their only one was something like this: "We are against abortion as well, but it's not up to us (the legislation) to eventually decide it". In my opinion such a statement is comfortable, cowardly, popular, hypocritical. Liberalism is about increasing the amount of personal freedom, but it is misused or even automatically turns into selfishness much too often. Each individual has a responsibility for their families and friends, for peace and democracy, for social justice and for our planet and finally to care of their children, no matter if "wanted" or not.