Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Let me be absolutely blunt: Despite my centre-left leanings, I believe that Unions are the most useless polical and social entity on the face of this earth. Though I would understand that Unions are there to "defend the rights of their workers", the things they go to strike for range from bizarre to absolutely ridiculous. Excruciatingly lavish benefits. Unreasonably high wages. It comes to no surprise to me that the number one impediment to investment in Ontario is the vast power of Unions in this province. In fact, I personally believe that the global economy would benefit from the banning of unions.
I found two interesting articles regarding unions. Note that they both feature prominent union leader Buzz Hargrove (whom I'd like to see run over with a truck several times):
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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EdipisReks
Ex-Member
posted
unions made sense in the 19th century and early 20th century. now they don't. they decrease the actual labor done (anyone who has ever seen a union contruction crew can attest to that) and they incorporate unneeded complications to the work place (making it difficult to fire incompetant workers, for instance). the things that they used to fight for (safety, etc) are now garunteed by other factors. unions are dinosaurs.
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
yes, but a problem is the fact that corporations and corporate abuse of power is very much on an upswing. the abolishment of unions would have a lot of positive effects, but it would leave us open to a lot of negative effects also, whos to say that the recent corporate scandals, which have already been costly to the econonmy, wouldnt be taken out on the workers.
is that solution going to lead to the original fatcat problem, or even make it worse?
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Unions are like any other special-interest group. They never go away. They will never look around one day and say "You know what? We've accomplished all we set out to do, let's all go home." Tie that in with the inevitable links to political parties (usually, but not always, on the left) and you have institutions that have long since left behind whatever principles or goals they might once have had.
The law firm I used to work for, that my wife still works for, represents a lot of unions. The law firm itself is tied in with the Labour Party here in the UK. The firm's in major financial difficulties because in order to represent each union they have to pitch for it, and suggest how much it's going to cost the union (in costs and winnings etc.). Now, in fact the firm's share is much larger - yet they don't claim anything over the pitched figure, in case it loses them their business. So the firm's got gosts it can't cover, while maintaining the standard of living the partners are accustomed to, so now there are redundancies on the way.
None of that is probably relevant, but it's safe to assume I don't like unions. They didn't help me when I had problems at work, they're not helping those people who've just learned these past two weeks they're out of a job. They're no good at helping individual people at all. All they're good for is large politically-motiviated industrial actions usually based around unreasonable pay rises.
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
In the last Ontario Election, large unions like Canadian Auto Workers and the Ontario Public Service Employees Union produced large ads lambasting the Conservative Government's record on Health Care, Education, Environment, etc. etc. etc.
Okay, so I agree with the fact that the government has been deplorable on Health Care, Education, Environment, etc. etc. etc. But why are Car Unions and Public Service Unions wading into an election that they have no right in interfering? It sounds more self-serving attempt to bolster their standing rather than a plea for a change in government policy.
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Last General Election, the building we occupy (which is owned by, and shared with a certain union) was absolutely plastered with "Vote Labour" signs. I went so far as to obtain some Conservative posters with the intention of replacing a few. Not because I support the Tories, mind, just because, well, I am the Coyote and such things are expected of a trickster. In the end I never got round to it because I went on holiday during the election week.
posted
I worked at ITT Automotive Systems, Oscoda Facilaty, Oscoda MI., making fuel/vapor/break/air vent lines for the big three and some marine applications, mm, Everude I think. The Union failed to get in, the number of works dropped to 1/3 of what it was, as work went to Mexico. Temperatures inside, during the winter, would get to 90 degree F. So during the summer it would go to 120 to 130. No extra breaks, no cool water, nada... Pay was a minor isssue, working condidtions were a big thing though. Now those that remain are hot and miserable, while un-employment in that area has gone up.
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Put all "Big Union Chiefs" in a locked, windowless room with all "Big Corporate Chiefs," and no other forms of sustenance. Let simmer for 10 days.
The rest of us will then be fine.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Nah, we'd need to toss in the politicians, too.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Don't forget the special interest groups, after all. I agree with Vogon's assessment.
Oh yes, before for I forget, I consider the NRA to be a special interest group.
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well, yes. Once they establish it's quite legal and above board for anyone to own any weapon they want, will that be the end of it? Nope, wait for the NRA's new campaign "Cheap Guns for Schools." 8)
Give everyone a gun, then everyone would have to think about actually shooting anyone, since a friend of their's might shot back...
Taking MAD to a new level....
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Ritten: read Robert Heinlein, um, what was it called? Beyond This Horizon, I think it was called. In that you have a society where personal armament is commonly and openly worn if you so choose; however any sort of conflict with another armed person might result in a duel or quick-draw gunfight.
posted
And that's why people never worry that I'll drive over them with my car.
Or something.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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