posted
Because your pseudo-arguments don't even stretch to making pseudo-sense, so why justify them by trying to counter the nonsense you spew? I mean, Fail Safe? THAT'S your justification?
No, my justification is exactly what I said when this came up. If you're going to be a worthless crap-monger, Lee, you can at least keep your insults from coloring you illiterate.
If the weapons inspectors are given more time and help by US and other intelligance angencies then it is probable they would find these WMDs that supposedly exist. they can then didarm Saddam peacefully.
The inspectors can do this how? It isn't some friendly game of hide and seek. "Oh, darn, you found my toys. Oh, well. I guess that means is my turn to inspect YOUR country for weapons." Why in the world do you think he'd give this stuff up voluntarily, found or not?
These are probably not grounds for war.
We were in a position to wipe him out ten years ago. We agreed not to, under certain conditions. He's broken those conditions. If that's not grounds for war...
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
How to defeat UN inspections: A Primer for Iraqi Intelligence trainees.
Step 1. Bug Inspector headquarters, vehicles, meeting places, etc.
Step 2. Listen in and find out where they're planning to go.
Step 3. Clean the place out in advance.
Step 4. Obfuscate any leftovers by claiming they're "obsolete" (never mind that warheads and chemical weapons aren't prone to spoilage and don't have 'use by' dates)
Appendix: If they increase the number of inspectors, just increase the number of bugs and surveilance staff by an equal proportion. We have guys to spare. Repeat steps 2-4 as needed.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:How to defeat UN inspections: A Primer for Iraqi Intelligence trainees.
Step 1. Bug Inspector headquarters, vehicles, meeting places, etc.
Step 2. Listen in and find out where they're planning to go.
Step 3. Clean the place out in advance.
Step 4. Obfuscate any leftovers by claiming they're "obsolete" (never mind that warheads and chemical weapons aren't prone to spoilage and don't have 'use by' dates)
Appendix: If they increase the number of inspectors, just increase the number of bugs and surveilance staff by an equal proportion. We have guys to spare. Repeat steps 2-4 as needed.
I know what could go along way to helping this situation. How about the US give the inspectors the intelligence the need to get the job done. You cannot destroy a factory overnight, or move a nuclear facility after saying "Hey look over there." then moving it. These things take time and according to Mr. Powell they have evidence of it being done, but they don't seem to think it is important to tell the inspectors.
-------------------- "and none of your usual boobery." M. Burns
Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Aside from the relatively small portion of the population that works in Sadaam's military and is still dumb enough to resist, the vast majority of the people in Iraq would be HELPED by our removal of Housein from power.
I see, the people of Iraq are going to come out into the streets, lay down their arms and welcome the United States as heros?
The average person in Iraq is not going to defend their home and community from invasion because....
Basicly because you folks who are tring to justify war with Iraq at by using almost any excuse seem to have deluded yourselves into not only thinking that this war will not cost much money, we can have war and tax cuts at the same time, but apparently you seem to think now only a few people are going to oppose the United States.
House to house fighting made painless by ignorance.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Grokca: I know what could go along way to helping this situation. How about the US give the inspectors the intelligence the need to get the job done. You cannot destroy a factory overnight, or move a nuclear facility after saying "Hey look over there." then moving it. These things take time and according to Mr. Powell they have evidence of it being done, but they don't seem to think it is important to tell the inspectors.
How do you get this information TO the inspectors, without the Iraqis getting wind of it? Have we developed telepathic agents that I'm not aware of?
Second, how do the inspectors communicate this knowledge to each other but keep it from their "handlers" (Think they're unescorted? Ha!) without giving things away? (I don't recall It being said that the inspectors were being given Intelligence training to avoid making slips. These are diplomats, not spies (unless some of them have been compromised / turned, in which case it's even MORE futile.)
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Jay the Obscure: The average person in Iraq is not going to defend their home and community from invasion because....
Because most of them privately hate their government even more than you hate yours.
"But the TV crews show them at the pro-Saddam rallies!"
Yes, crowds of people with the soldiers keeping them there kept carefully out of frame.
Like the USSR parading the same tanks and missiles around Red Square a half-dozen times to make the western media think they had many more weapons than they did.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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Actually they are trained inspectors. That come mostly from the fields they are supposed to be inspecting in. And I think I would take Dr. Blix's word on this rather than your armchair spyguy opinion.
quote:How do you get this information TO the inspectors, without the Iraqis getting wind of it? Have we developed telepathic agents that I'm not aware of?
Wow an armchair spyguy who hasn't heard of secure communications. Does you armed forces still anounce to your enemies your postions in the field or have they found a way around that yet?
-------------------- "and none of your usual boobery." M. Burns
Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Because most of them privately hate their government even more than you hate yours.
This from the poster boy for Anti-Big Brother (oh, unless its a Republican big brother reality, in which case Rob fears the government so much he doesn't even feel he has the freedom to protest it and vow to die with his Sig-Sauer in hand, as he did when Clinton was in office. But that's because Rob knows that liberals value freedom, and conservatives only pay it lip service).
posted
I think George W. Bush will go down as the top 1 or 2 worst presidents the United States has had. Ever.
Now you have proof that I hate my government.
If, on the other hand, I loathed Bill Clinton, I would love America and all that it stands for.
I guess that's right-wing mental gymnastics for you.
I fail to see the connection between the Soviet military and any indication that the USSR wanted to be invaded by the United States, like you apparently assume the vast "silent majority" Iraqi people apparently want, and that the Soviet people, unlike the Iraqi people, would not have acted in opposition to such and invasion.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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Actually they are trained inspectors. That come mostly from the fields they are supposed to be inspecting in. And I think I would take Dr. Blix's word on this rather than your armchair spyguy opinion.
I'll buy that they are indeed trained at inspecting, within their particular fields. I do not buy that they are trained in espionage procedures. Inspectors still does not = intelligence experts
quote:Wow an armchair spyguy who hasn't heard of secure communications. Does you armed forces still anounce to your enemies your postions in the field or have they found a way around that yet?
I don't recall any country that's in the practice of sharing its procedures for secure communications with a group of people not their own countrymen. IIRC, that would be considered "stupid."
And you didn't answer the second half of the question. I suppose Blix talks to the other inspectors via a series of elaborate dance steps?
"Well, Luis, the US says we should visit Al-Zafir tomorrow. *Makes gesture towards map, pointing at Al-Husan* That's AL-ZAFIR."
Luis *writes down "Al-Zafir"
"No no, NO." *gestures again at Al-Husan* "AL-ZAFIR!"
"So I should tell the driver we're going to Al-Zafir?"
"No, tell HIM we're going to AL ZAFIR."
"I think he's an Iraqi agent."
"F***! How are we going to get to AL ZAFIR, if we have to tell everyone we're going to Al Zafir?"
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Jay the Obscure: I fail to see the connection between the Soviet military and any indication that the USSR wanted to be invaded by the United States, like you apparently assume the vast "silent majority" Iraqi people apparently want, and that the Soviet people, unlike the Iraqi people, would not have acted in opposition to such and invasion.
That's because you are looking off into space while I'm trying to show you something six inches from your nose. I can't tell whether you're doing it intentionally or not. Since you're fairly smart, I ham forced to suspect that you're doing it on purpose.
The point has absolutely nothing to do with the people of the USSR. It has to do with the "image" that the USSR was able to present, with the help of a few well-placed lies and misdirections, and some folks running the cameras who wanted to show a strong USSR.
The point is, that the "image" you have of the Iraqi street, as is presented by the cameras, is not necessarily the truth. Despite the cliche, the cameras can lie. Especially cameras inside Iraq.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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