Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Spring 2002: A Canadian of Lebanese Descent is heading home after a business trip from London to Toronto with a stopover in New York. Once in New York, he is immediately detained because he is suspected of having links to Al Qaeda. The man insists that he is only a businessman returning from a business related venture, but is promptly arrested by police. He is held not only without proper counsel, but is denied requests to see a member of the Canadian Consulate who would attempt to iron things out. He languishes in a New York Prison where guards threaten to send him to Guantanamo Bay unless he provides information about the whereabouts of Al Qaeda Operatives he knows nothing about. He is then deported, not to Toronto where he has made his home for the last 20 years, but to Lebanon. Only then are the Canadian authorities notified. Fortunately, the man turns up at a Lebanese police station 30 days after his detention, unharmed, and pretty pissed off at the U.S. Government. He is seeking a lawsuit of unspecified damages.
Summer 2002: Two Muslim men are crossing into the United States at Niagara Falls to attend a wedding in Rochester, NY. They are subsequently arrested since two men travelling in the same car must mean that they are Al Qaeda operatives (or some stupid reason like that). They are held without counsel, and like the first guy, denied any request to see a member of the Canadian Consulate. Family and friends back at home begin to suspect the worst and contact the Canadian Government. It takes two months to free both men from this mess.
1) Why Shoot First and ask questions later? 2) Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty?" 3) They ask for a lawyer. They aren't "unlawful combatants." But still, no lawyer?
So far, the U.S. Customs are three for three. Any more suspected Canadians you would like to humiliate?
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
#1, #2, and #3 are what happens when freedom-hating, constitution-hating goose-stepping facists get in the White House.
Registered: Sep 2000
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Da_bang80
A few sectors short of an Empire
Member # 528
posted
Don't forget paranoid
-------------------- Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I cannot accept. And the wisdom to hide the bodies of all the people I had to kill today because they pissed me off.
posted
Da_Bang: these incidents with Canadian citizens are frightfully real, and the result of the facist fear-mongering administration currently running this nation.
quote:Originally posted by Tahna Los: 1) Why Shoot First and ask questions later?
Well hell, half the people here would like to do that already...
This is what percentage out of how many Canadians that cross the border to get away from the GST and the cold weather every year?
My goodness, a statistical sample of three.
You don't love us.. you're just using us for the body heat.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
They asked for counsel, First. A lawyer or either someone from the Canadian Consulate. The least they can do is to honour the request. The article that I posted had a person stating that the detainee can request someone from the Consulate. At the very least, I understand when someone is detained for questioning at the border. So why wasn't their request for counsel granted? Have we regressed to our McCarthy days?
But noooooooo..... these people had to be humiliated first. And besides, these four are from the Toronto area only. There may be many more.
Did I mention that Canadian Director Atom Egoyan was supposed to be at a directing seminar in New York? He chose not to go because a) he is muslim, and b) the threat of being detained for no reason is now more paramount.
Oh btw: these people were also denied requests to make even a simple phone call. How do you justify that, First?
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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Da_bang80
A few sectors short of an Empire
Member # 528
posted
Most fascists leaders tend towards paranoia, yes?
"these incidents with Canadian citizens are frightfully real, and the result of the facist fear-mongering administration currently running this nation."
I see that. I am a Canadain. And I feel that the actions of this "fascist fear-mongering adminisration" is overstepping its bounds. In fact, I feel that it has overstepped its bounds A LONG TIME AGO.
-------------------- Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I cannot accept. And the wisdom to hide the bodies of all the people I had to kill today because they pissed me off.
posted
One less Canadian director in the US, and this is bad, how?
And "more paramount?" that's an oxymoron, and it's not even an accurate one.
And I'm not justifying it. It's ludicrous. It's ridiculous. But you know what? In the grander scheme of things, it's a drop of spit in the ocean.
And I'd wager that these events, had they happened elsewhen, would have gone largely or entirely unnoticed.
Bad crap happens every day. Justice gets miscarried. The INS arrests Canadians but lets John Lee Malvo go free unsupervised.
I'll admit and agree that the INS is in SEVERE need of overhaul. Unfortunately, neither major political party seems interested in doing so. (In fact, the only other voice I hear calling for a review of the INS and its procedures is Bill O'Reilly.)
Despite what the media would have you believe, we're not all arab-hating maniacs down here. We're talking of three incidents out of how many million this year? Perspective.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Stragely enough, I agree. The incidents are certainly in need of some internal (or even external) investigation, but I'd sooner chalk it down to a combination of paranoia, bureaucratric ineptitude, and overzealous policing (with maybe a hint of racism). It's quite common these days, we're getting all these report so people being arrested by the security forces guarding the airport cordons yet they're all getting released without charge. What's happening in these cases? Why are these people being deemed 'suspicious?' We don't know since we don't have any meaningful freedom of information legislation. There are far worse, and more government-sanctioned actions taking place: consider the case of the British plane-spotters arrested and sentenced to prison for spying on Greek military airfields.
quote:Originally posted by First of Two: This is what percentage out of how many Canadians that cross the border to get away from the GST and the cold weather every year?
Completely irrelevant. It's the NATURE of these offenses which makes the whole thing horribly, unspeakably wrong. There is absolutely no justification for refusing a traveler access to a representative of their consulate -- regardless of the "crime." There is no logical way in which the term "combatant" can be applied in the described situations.
The simple fact is that in order to protect this nation's ideals, the fools in the government are willing to destroy those very same ideals. You know, simple things like "innocent until proven guilty"?
I hope that Prime Minister Chr�tien will be able to bring some real attention to this kind of thing. The administration needs a good embarrassment right about now.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
One less Canadian director in the US, and this is bad, how?
You're missing my point.
And I'm not justifying it. It's ludicrous. It's ridiculous. But you know what? In the grander scheme of things, it's a drop of spit in the ocean.
You're still missing my point. And it does sound like you are defending the actions of those who abuse their power.
And I'd wager that these events, had they happened elsewhen, would have gone largely or entirely unnoticed.
You're three for three.
While I understand "increased scrutiny" and "detained for questioning", my concern is the gung-ho attitude of the customs agents who wield more power than a typical police officer. I don't think I need to repeat MinutaeMan's words, they are dead on the money. Besides, American police officers are supposed to yield an interrogation from the moment a criminal requests a lawyer.
In the first case, the Canadian Government feared that the man could have been killed from the moment he set foot on Lebanon. And as for the recent case, we need not forget the case of the man who was living in a Paris airport for how many years after his passport was stolen? (the INS actually destroyed any chance of the woman going to either Canada or India, God bless the generous pilot who was able to help her out.)
The only thing that is worth noting and agreeing is the notion of overhaul from within the INS. But since you don't think about these without a hint of outrage (I don't see any), then I don't think you take your own notion very seriously.
Heck, I could be travelling down to the states later this year. I wouldn't be surprised if I had a similar story as the above three only to have you reply: "so what? in the grander scheme of things, it's only a drop of spit in the ocean."
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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Or, um, if we're feeling Trekgeekish, how about that Alan Kroeker?
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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