quote:Originally posted by Omega: You're thinking of the ideal of christianity wherein people judge not and turn the other cheek....but that sure never happens.
No, I'm thinking of Christianity, which is a religious belief, a way to live one's life. You're thinking of individual people in history who have claimed to be Christians without actually following Christian beliefs. Those people are NOT Christianity, nor is any group of people. Christianity is a way of life, and it's no more accurate to call it a religion of harrasment and self-righteousness than it is to call Islam a religion of terrorism and slaughter of innocents.
Granted. You have agood point. In this context, lets see someone erect a statue with the open Koran in a courthouse and we'll see all these same proponents of the ten commandments go nuts over any OTHER religon's interpertation of God. See the rub? saying it's okay to aknowledge one group's religous beliefs will alienate the 30-40% that don't folow them.
As to not understanding Christianity: I try to understand world history and social development, and that has not enderared me toward christianity in any way.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by djewell: The universal one, mucus.
What, did we just step into a weird parallel universe where the Reformation didn't happen?
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
Da_bang80
A few sectors short of an Empire
Member # 528
posted
"This is an example of what is happening in this country: the acknowledgment of God as the moral foundation of law in this nation is being hidden from us"
How can something that has no physical evidence lending to it's existence be a foundation?
I'm not debating the fact that "God's" teachings are good moral examples. I read the Bible during school (more entertaining than Math) and the morals behind it's stories are sound, But that's all they are, stories, examples of how we should behave.
The problem I have is that some people so blindly follow God, and the belief that God is a "moral foundation" of the Country. Any religion, and any country.
Where in the Koran does it tell Jihad terrorists to go out and kill people? Where in the Bible does it say that innocent people (who don't conform) should be condemned as witches and killed? Nowhere, but people are so brainwashed by other fanatics that they think that the sins they commit aren't really sins because it benefits thier God or religion. I am thankful that there are very few people who are as fanatical as these examples.
When people take religion too seriously, whether it's by the ruling power to incite hatred throughout the population towards another religious, or ethnic group or country. Or by regular citizens who see something different as evil that must be destroyed, people suffer and die. So I fail to see the logic in making religion a foundation of any country.
-------------------- Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I cannot accept. And the wisdom to hide the bodies of all the people I had to kill today because they pissed me off.
"Gene Chapman, a preacher who walked more than 1,100 kilometres to Alabama from Austin, Texas, said he has not found any religion that opposes the Ten Commandments."
The hell? He didn't even look, apparently. Every religion that I know of opposes them, aside from Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Sure, they don't oppose all ten of them, but I think any religion that isn't one of those three will have an issue w/ "I am Yahweh, your god. ... You shall have no other gods before me.".
Oh, and regarding one of Omega's earlier comments: While the feds didn't really have a right to stick their noses into the matter, the Alabama state constitution does provide for non-establishment of religion. So, legally, he should have to take it down whether Washington tells him to, or not.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
I think you could (generously) stretch that statement to mean that every religion doesn't hav an eqivelent, such as "I am the (insert appicable deity), you shall have no other (non-applicable deities) before me/us".
Still, I am suspicious of any man who hasn't realised the wonderful, wonderful invention that is the car. Or train. Or plane. Or bicycle.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Omega would know for sure Da_bang, but I do believe that the Bible has a verse that says somehting to the idea of not letting a witch suffer to live.
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by djewell: The universal one, mucus.
What, did we just step into a weird parallel universe where the Reformation didn't happen?
We are united as one universal church because some of us are faithful enough to see beyond denominational differences that divide us. I came here to post in a Trek Forum. I'm not getting into this again.
-------------------- "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
posted
I fail to see the logic in making religion a foundation of any country.
Depends on how you go about it. I'd say that if you were gonna make Christianity the foundation of any country, since Christianity is based on love you'd have to do whatever you could to accomidate everyone's religion, except where it harms someone else. Making people hate you by making them go through irrelevant motions would just be stupid if you're trying to change their mind, now wouldn't it? But, *shrug*.
So, legally, he should have to take it down whether Washington tells him to, or not.
See, this is one reason the court system is kinda screwy. Given the stance that the Supreme Court of whatever state (including the US) is the ultimate arbiter of the laws of that state, you can get into situations where that court does illegal things, and nobody can override them. The Florida Supreme Court rewriting election laws three years ago, for a more dangerous example. In that case their new laws violated the US Constitution, and the US Supreme Court was right to intervene, but such situations are still very dangerous. I suppose you just have to hope that all judges are, in fact, wise and enlightened. What we REALLY need is a system where no humans are involved at all.
I think you could (generously) stretch that statement to mean that every religion doesn't hav an eqivelent, such as "I am the (insert appicable deity), you shall have no other (non-applicable deities) before me/us".
Polytheistic religions?
I do believe that the Bible has a verse that says somehting to the idea of not letting a witch suffer to live.
Okay, no offense, but I'm REALLY tired of this kind of argument. The Bible is NOT one frelling huge list of rules, cover to cover, talking directly to the reader. It's a record of what people have said and done at various points in history. Just because there's a record of someone, even if it's God, saying the words "Kill all the witches" doesn't mean WE, NOW are supposed to kill all witches. Context is everything. That verse, for example, is in the Old Testament, it's God talking to the Jews IIRC. Since I'm NOT a Jew, I'm not required to follow that rule, any more than I'm required to go celebrate the Passover in Jerusalem every year. He wasn't talking to me.
We are united as one universal church because some of us are faithful enough to see beyond denominational differences that divide us.
Oh, yay, it's not just me!
I think the confusion may be stemming from the fact that Catholic means "Universal", which it was until the Reformation. Saying the "universal church" can thus be vague.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Omega: The Bible is NOT one frelling huge list of rules, cover to cover
"Fucking".
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
So what, the Great Inquisition is what, a petty family squabble? Did the Spanish Armada merely wish to stop and ask for directions? And what are a few high-powered explosives between Northern Irish friends?
If this is the face of a united universal church, I'd hate to see the divided one.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Omega: Just because there's a record of someone, even if it's God, saying the words "Kill all the witches" doesn't mean WE, NOW are supposed to kill all witches. Context is everything. That verse, for example, is in the Old Testament, it's God talking to the Jews IIRC. Since I'm NOT a Jew, I'm not required to follow that rule, any more than I'm required to go celebrate the Passover in Jerusalem every year. He wasn't talking to me.
So Christians are ready to drop all that nonsense about homosexuals, too? Cause the OT's where THAT'S from, too. JC said diddly-squat about it.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Omega: Just because there's a record of someone, even if it's God, saying the words "Kill all the witches" doesn't mean WE, NOW are supposed to kill all witches. Context is everything. That verse, for example, is in the Old Testament, it's God talking to the Jews IIRC. Since I'm NOT a Jew, I'm not required to follow that rule, any more than I'm required to go celebrate the Passover in Jerusalem every year. He wasn't talking to me.
So Christians are ready to drop all that nonsense about homosexuals, too? Cause the OT's where THAT'S from, too. JC said diddly-squat about it.
quote:You're thinking of individual people in history who have claimed to be Christians without actually following Christian beliefs. Those people are NOT Christianity, nor is any group of people.
Which would probably be news to about 90% of "Christians." Or more.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
You know, if this is gonna turn into another Christian-bashing thread, is there any reason for its continuance?
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Seriously, I don't like my religion getting "bashed." I have a right to my beliefs and you have no right to tell me that its wrong. So there. Someone with the power should lock this before it gets out of hand.
-------------------- "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
