posted
The thing I'm concerned with is that nither Democrats OR Republicans have any solid plan. Either we keep the fuckos in power now or we vote for fuckos with no platform other than they hate and critique the current administration.
Makes all that recall nonsense in California seem (even more) trivial by comparison does'nt it?
I think the arab countries will have to see the West in a positive (or at the least neutral) light before we can really say the "war on terror" is over. So....how the hell do we pull this off? Hmmmm...we could kill all their firstborn children....
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
A "solid plan" is guaranteed to fail. Only a "fluid" plan can succeed.
There's an old military saying about no plan of action surviving engagement with the enemy.
In my experience, this is more of a Universal Truth than a mere military maxim. No plan survives implementation.
Those of you who are responsible for planning things (from those who manage businesses to those who run RPG's) probably know what I'm talking about.
Thinking that there wasn't a plan is folly. The Spanish Armada had a plan. Napoleon had a plan at Waterloo. Even Custer had a plan at Little Bighorn.
Understanding that the plan didn't last, is more accurate. The plan may have been inadequate to the actual ciircumstances. Many, perhaps most, plans end up that way. I don't recall any claims of infallibility, so I don't flip out when plans go awry. We're behind schedule, not losing.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
The only problem with relying on local police agencies in our newest protectorates is that there aren't any local police agencies to rely on. Afghanistan had completely withered away as a state, and we ran the guys who had taken on the role of the police out of the country. In Iraq you can either put high-level Ba'ath apparatchiks back into the stationhouses or try to build something new out of humble beat cops and green trainees. In either nation, it is certainly not outside the realm of imagination that the U.S. will wind up handing the keys back to the Taliban and to Saddam's functionaries, with an injunction to play nice this time, or at least to play with us, but that kind of outcome leads to a grim and unpleasent future where values like liberty and the pursuit of happiness have been swallowed by simple animal survival.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by First of Two: Understanding that the plan didn't last, is more accurate. The plan may have been inadequate to the actual ciircumstances. Many, perhaps most, plans end up that way. I don't recall any claims of infallibility, so I don't flip out when plans go awry. We're behind schedule, not losing.
Um...have you heard even a "fluid" general plan? From anyone? Obviously relying on the local's being grateful and governing themselves is not working out. I know it's a bit early to say that but anybody we put in power in a democracy is going to be replaced by a duly elected american hater. Installing a UN "peacekeeping force" is what theother governments seem to want but that's usually our cue to wash our hands of a bad situation and watch from afar as it quickly spins out of control again....
How do we win a war of ideaology with a people that have been conditioned by both their former governments and their religous leaders for generations to hate us and our way of life?
My solution for the middle east: Hookers. Possibly casino gambling.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Incidently, Iraq and Afghanistan, and even Syria, are already members of Interpol. It isn't really a policing agency, you know, so much as a clearinghouse for police agencies to share information.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Yeah, but saying "They should establish something like interpol" sounds better than saying "They should establish something like G.I. Joe "
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
quote:Originally posted by First of Two: Those of you who are responsible for planning things (from those who manage businesses to those who run RPG's) probably know what I'm talking about.
When you're the manager of a business and screw up, you either present a plan to bring it back on track or you get cashiered out. When you're the DM of an RPG and screw up, you either improvise a scenario to plug the hole in your story or the game ends. There are no lives at stake, no potential terrorists to breed, no governments to topple, no power vacuums to fill, no wacky leaders to oust, and no ramifications for anyone but yourself and maybe a handful of fellow roleplaying geeks or company employees (and stockholders).
But when you orchestrate a military campaign in a political and religious POWDER KEG and fail to prepare for or even consider the aftermath (because dear Rummy & Co remained dubiously silent on that subject), "the plan may have been inadequate" doesn't quite cover the fucking mess you've created.
So, really, this analogy is bullshit.
Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Cartman: But when you orchestrate a military campaign in a political and religious POWDER KEG and fail to prepare for or even consider the aftermath (because dear Rummy & Co remained dubiously silent on that subject), "the plan may have been inadequate" doesn't quite cover the fucking mess you've created.
Well that was what I tried to get across (poorly) in four or five posts. well put.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
oh no, it's not bush's or cheney's or rummy's or condi's or blair's fault for this mess, oh no. they had this all planned out, it was canada who fucked things up, stupid, which is why we need to take out the worst terrorist coddler of them all
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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Mountain Man
Ex-Member
posted
Heres a little gift of information to help understand why political leaders get bent out of shape when the people rag on them while war is going on. It goes way back but it explains the whole thing in simple terms and this is after all a building block of the political process. Its the Forum Judicum the Code of the Visigoths. I'll add instruction to find the proper passages. And remember no man is a villian in his own eyes. By understanding them you can find the best solutions. http://libro.uca.edu/vcode/visigoths.htm Book I Title II Law VI (How the law should triumph over enemies).
[ September 11, 2003, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Mountain Man ]
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-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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Mountain Man
Ex-Member
posted
It goes to the motivation of the political leadership. The basic concept has always been the same. To understand the mind set of the adversary is the first step. When you understand that, you can form a usable strategy for dealing with the problems that this thread addresses. Knowledge is a tool. They use it to further their aims. If your aims are different you must still use their tools.Ps this code established the modern concept of the body politic. At least as they understand and accept it to be.
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quote:Originally posted by Wraith: I hate to have to say this but...
the "fuck"?!?
I concur.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Mountain Man
Ex-Member
posted
Never mind then I thought you might find it usefull.
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