posted
I just read the Bill Clinton page on the patriot website, and I'm completely disgusted. I'm gonna email this to everyone I know.
------------------ "I have come to the conclusion that one man is called a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three on the law become a congress! And by God I have had this Congress!" --John Adams, "1776"
posted
"When arms are banned, only bands will have arms."
great, that would mean less casualties. See, if you're shop's being robbed, and pull a gun from under the counter, only THEN does the shit start. Someone's going to get killed. If you just stick your hands in the air you have a bigger change to get away alive, and who cares about a little money then? HUH? And if you don't go down with a gun to intercept a burglar but just call the police, ever thought of that? And no more children shooting themselves accidents.
posted
RW, that was actually supposed to be a joke. See, it usually goes "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." Using arms and bans and bands is, uh, funny. At least it's supposed to be.
------------------ "And though I once prefered a human being's company, they pale before the monolith that towers over me." -- They Might Be Giants
posted
The last time I entered an argumnent like this was against an anti-firearm sociology professor at Penn State. I thrashed him. And so:
Here's a few statistics that the anti-gun people don't want you to know:
An estimated 1 MILLION crimes are prevented each year in the United States by the display or use of firearms by civilians.
A burglar is at least 75% LESS likely to enter a house where he BELIEVES the owner keeps a gun handy.
And a couple of comments by me: If a reponsible person owns the gun, there can be no "accidents." If you leave your guns where your kids can get at them, you're a fecking moron who shouldn't have either.
"Call the police." Yes, the overworked, thankless-jobbed, can-be-there-in-half-an-hour-MAYBE police. IF the criminal is one of the nice ones, being robbed may be all that happens to you. However, he may be one who realizes that it's best not to leave any witnesses, or he may just be a plain old sociopath. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not take that gamble. If I'm going to die, it's going to be fighting back.
"Proliferation of guns" "Laws & legislation," etc: People, WAKE UP CALL! Criminals don't respect the law, that's why they're CRIMINALS! making guns illegal will only affect those who would obey the laws anyway. (as an aside to the folks who say that only the police should have guns, I should point out that most cops shot and killed in the line of duty are shot with their OWN guns - actually a higher percentage than that of gun-carrying/owning civilians who are killed with their own guns)
quote:An estimated 1 MILLION crimes are prevented each year in the United States by the display or use of firearms by civilians.
How on earth did they come up with this? And what do they mean by "prevented", perhaps a guy walks into the store, tries to rob it, and the clerk pulls a gun? I think something like this should be taken with a grain of salt, after all, we don't know how many people were killed in preventing these crimes, nor does it say how many crimes weren't prevented.
quote:A burglar is at least 75% LESS likely to enter a house where he BELIEVES the owner keeps a gun handy.
Now, how many burglars stop to think whether or not the person inside has a gun? Again, I'm left wondering how one goes about developing this kind of statistic, a survey of the local prison? And let's not forget that a great many guns are stolen from households, sometimes with the owner getting shot with his own gun (a sad irony, in my opinion).
quote:making guns illegal will only affect those who would obey the laws anyway. (as an aside to the folks who say that only the police should have guns, I should point out that most cops shot and killed in the line of duty are shot with their OWN guns - actually a higher percentage than that of gun-carrying/owning civilians who are killed with their own guns)
The first part is actually not true. If you look at crime statistics in Canada and the US, you will see that the percentage of crimes committed with firearms in Canada is much lower than that of the US. Firearms control controls the supply of firearms, even for criminals. Don't forget that many criminals obtain their weapons by stealing firearms from armed civilians, or through "legitimate" means (ie going to a store and buying one). As for cops being shot with their own weapon, I've never seen any figures on this, but my inclination would be to disagree. Of all the news stories of cops being shot here in Canada, I have only heard of one where he was accidently shot by a cop (and it wasn't even his own weapon).
All I can say is that figures speak for themselves, countries with stricter gun control laws generally have lower firearms crime rates.
A final note on facts and figures: Not all of them are created equally, many often have bias built into them depending on where they come from, and often can be subjective. Often one has to take these with a grain of salt (or simple skepticism if your blood pressure is already high )
------------------ "Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you." -Commander Riker, USS Enterprise
These crime rates...are they just all crimes in general, or crimes committed that involved firearms?
US crime rates don't necessarily have to be because we have a right to bear arms...It can come from other reasons, one of them being our diversity. This is one of the reasons we have so many problems. So many different people with different ideas... It is so much easier to be ruled by people you associate with. The US makes is so difficult because we're a conglomeration of different peoples, and this causes a lot of friction. So, don't go thinking that crime comes from guns, without examining other possibilities.
------------------ Jeff Raven - Having more fun than any human being should be allowed to have
posted
Well, Chimaera (did I spell that right), most burglaries and robberies aren't spur-of-the-moment things. Most people who make their living committing burglary do something which is known as "casing" the joint. That is, finding the easiest access points, determining the pattern of behaviour of the owners, etc. If you see, while casing, that the owner has, say, an NRA membership (evidenced in bumper stickers, magazine subscriptions, etc.) you get a pretty good idea that the owner of the house is the owner of a gun.
(and yes, actually the people doing the statistics - the UCB - DID interview criminals, both in jail and reformed)
As for the number of crimes prevented, foiled, etc. by armed citizens, you can refer to the Uniform Crime Board statistics for an unbiased sample, or you can read "The Armed Citizen" and similar columns in admittedly somewhat slanted publications such as "The American Rifleman."
And lastly... Homer Simpson? Guys, we all know Homer is a card-carrying moron... but what's really sad is that anytime anyone who is not a cop or a crook who has a gun is depicted on TV, regardless of previous character development, he or she AUTOMATICALLY becomes a bloodthirsty or incompetent idiot. I'll let the conspiracy theorists among you puzzle out just why...
The free availability of firearms in the USA is the #1 reason I'd never move there. The idea of a society where everyone can "protect" each other by all packing a piece is ludicrous.
To my mind, the number of weapons in circulation in a society is inversely proportional to its stabiltity and cohesion.
------------------ "Is there anyone there with a gun?" - On the Hour
posted
But then again... Is it still true that in modern Switzerland, every household has an "assault rifle." Every male citizen over the age of (something, I forget, and it may include women now anyway) has been trained in its use, and has spent some time in mandatory military training? And who's invaded Switzerland recently? How's the crime? Any Euros know?
As I recall, guns proliferate in Israel, too, and despite the incidence of terrorism (an unrelated problem), actual normal crime isn't too high there, either.
*watches Monty's previous theory as the explosion lifts it clear of the water*
posted
I'm gonna give Frank the benefit of the doubt, and assume he means military service is required to own a gun in many European contrues, rather than saying that conscriptions been brought back while I've been dozing.
I thought last time we all came to the agreement that banning guns in the US wouldn't do any good, as it's been saturated with them. On the other hand, countries like the UK should continue to ban them, to stop the number of murders getting anywhere near the percentage of the US.
I did read some statistics to show how many children are shot each year in the US by guns, but I've forgotten it. Still, isn't even one too many?
'And a couple of comments by me: If a reponsible person owns the gun, there can be no "accidents."' Surely the very definition of accidents means that they cannot always be prevented. I am sure most people think that their gun is secure. Until their child shoots themself with it.
Also, I don't normally get angry, but: 'So go ahead and hiss, snarl and fizz, you look cute doing it through a rifle scope.'
I really can't stand that sort of shit. It's dangerous, idiotic, and really doesn't make people like you. BTW, owning guns make you less likely to be invaded by another country? What century are you living in? Jesus, you really think everyone in England lies awake at night worried that they are going to be invaded by the French or something, and wishing they had a gun to blow their heads off? You know, maybe if the US had tried talking to other countries instead of either secluding itself from the world, or inventing a war simply to pump money into the military, some of its citizens wouldn't have this strange idea that 'hey, it's okay, I have the power to kill someone from 50 yards! What a beautiful world'
Come on: Alcohol. 99% of people use it for recreation. Maybe 1% of people might act violent while under the influence. Minimum age in the US: 21
Firearms. Are designed with one thing in mind: to hurt and kill people. Minimum age in some states: 18
Does this make any sense?
------------------ 'Saying it in a stacato voice doesn't make it any more true' -Stewart Lee
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