posted
So what does everyone think of it so far? (I'm writing this 5 minutes into it, and I'm enjoying it already.)
-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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Much closer debate in that they both showed up ready for battle.
The moderator was terrible and kept asking bad questions.
My feeling was that I was watching two fellows, each with a club, taking a swing at the other fellow, then bracing for the return blow. And this kept going on. However, I think there were more issues that Mr. Edwards raised that Mr. Cheney seemed to have no answer for.
Mr. Cheney is still a zombie.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Many of the questions were too personal...better suited for an interview than a debate where both were supposed to sides speak to the same question.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
The thing I was perhaps most impressed by . . . besides the structural integrity field strength of John's hair . . . was Cheney's thanks regarding the comments Edwards made about his family, and nothing more.
It wasn't one of those Kerry Waffles, or a Clintonian "Who's My Audience, Anyway?" panderings. It was raw honesty and class. In an era of excessive verbiage, his silence spoke volumes.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
posted
Much as I want to see Bush and Cheney go down in flames, I have to admit that it was nice to see a debate where both candidates were articulate. It almost makes you feel like there's some point.
Of course, there wasn't, since it was the veep debate, and who gives a flying cheney?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I'll probbaly have more to say in the morning. But I'm writing this now without having listened to any of the spin (having spent the night watching the old episodes of SNL celebrity Jeopardy online). It was a vastly improved performance for the Republicans.
I'm in agreement with Jay on a few of those questions. They sounded a little too much like an HR director asking the candidates, "If you could be one part of a bike, what would it be?" But the questions were much better balanced this time in terms of time spent reviewing Bush's record versus time spent figuring out what Kerry would do differently in the next term. I thought the first debate should have focused more on foreign policy issues to come, not simply a plebiscite on the past 4 years' policy.
What I liked most was the two going at each other there for about 60 seconds during foreign policy period over who was lying on Iraq. I wish these debates were longer. I would have loved to really see them go at it. I know a rundown of the dossier on Saddam's connections to Al Qaeda and Saddam's cooperation with known terrorist groups is detailed, but I wonder how many people are taking the time to research that. It makes me long for Lincoln-Douglas length debates. An hour to each side, followed by half hour rebuttals. And questions from the candidates to each other. After two debates I realize how important those are to a good dogfight.
Edwards might have blown a chance for a runaway emotional heartwrencher by not describing the extent of that pool drain case more (it's an utterly gruesome example). Then again, it might have been too disgusting for a VP debate. On the other hand, Cheney blew an opportunity to go after a lot of Edwards's other cases that weren't anywhere near as meritorious. I would have expected him to have been briefed on them since there's a lot of faulty science behind some of his cases. Tort reform had to be done in only 10 minutes. It just doesn't do a topic that complicated justice. (No pun intended.)
The only possible zinger I saw was Cheney hitting Edwards hard over his attendance record in the Senate. I knew it was bad before, but I had no idea this was the first time they had met. But the moment still did not compare to Reagan's not making Mondale's youth and inexperience an issue in the 1984 campaign or Benson's You're No Jack Kennedy.
The candidates probably connected better with viewers depending on whether the issue was a "mommy party" issue or a "daddy party" issue. But the topics were evenly divided, so no advantage to either.
Overall, I would have scored the debate as Cheney by a hair, just like Kerry in the first. There were a few solid hits by both sides, no knockouts, and expectations of the Friday debate serving as a tie-breaker just increased.
-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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"The only possible zinger I saw was Cheney hitting Edwards hard over his attendance record in the Senate."
So, what about Edwards' response? I mean, he may have missed an inordinate number of votes (though, was that over his career, or just during the past year, most of which he's spent campaigning?), but Cheney made a ton of bad votes, and ones which he later � dare I say it? � flip-flopped on. So, however bad Edwards' Senate record is, Cheney's is at least comparable, if not worse, just for different reasons.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
The "We cant afford another four years of your administration" was a nice sound byte from Edwards. I was sleeping after working myself to death and missed it but it looks like a marginal vctory for the Dems overall (based on recaps I've seen).
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Yep, Jay, I just woke up to the Drudge headline on that. I don't know if he was lying or had forgotten. Too bad the air was let out that. It was probably the only really memorable quote about the affair.
-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
What I am surprised at was the way Edwards answers were rather infrequently an answer to the questions that were posed to him. He couldn't even follow the rules of "Don't name your candidate". So the DemoNrats have a plan that isn't just going to pull our troups tomorrow. So what is it? Oh wait, they can't reveal it until they get erected....sorry Clintonese speak. It's amazing that they are so adamant that they have "THE PLAN" but seem totally incapable of even articulating the smallest part of it numberswise.
And yes, I become more anti-democrat every time I hear one speak. I used to say I voted for the individual that I thought best reflected my values.....then I realized that for the last 20 years with only a couple of exceptions, they were all in the same party.
-------------------- I am the Anti-Abaddon. I build models at a scale of 2500/1
Registered: Aug 2003
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"He couldn't even follow the rules of 'Don't name your candidate'."
Yeah, 'cause that's important.
"So the DemoNrats have a plan that isn't just going to pull our troups tomorrow. So what is it? Oh wait, they can't reveal it until they get erected....sorry Clintonese speak. It's amazing that they are so adamant that they have 'THE PLAN' but seem totally incapable of even articulating the smallest part of it numberswise."
posted
Oh, and regarding Cheney's claim never to have met Edwards... He also claimed to preside over the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session. Hm...
Registered: Mar 1999
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