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Author Topic: Secret CIA Prisons
Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
Member # 19

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Our own gulag system.

quote:
Bush acknowledges secret CIA prisons

President Bush on Wednesday acknowledged previously secret CIA prisons around the world and said 14 high-value terrorism suspects � including the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks � have been transferred from the system to Guantanamo Bay for trials.

He said a small number of detainees have been kept in CIA custody including people responsible for the bombing of the USS Cole in 2000 in Yemen and the 1998 attacks on U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, in addition to the 2001 attacks.

"It has been necessary to move these individuals to an environment where they can be held secretly, questioned by experts and, when appropriate, prosecuted for terrorist acts," Bush said in a White House speech. Families of some people killed in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks made up part of the audience.

Bush said of the suspects: "These are dangerous men, with unparalleled knowledge about terrorist networks and their plans of new attacks. The security of our nation and the lives of our citizens depend on our ability to learn what these terrorists know."

The announcement from Bush was the first time the administration had acknowledged the existence of CIA prisons, which have been a source of friction between Washington and some allies in Europe. The administration has come under criticism for its treatment of terrorism detainees. European Union lawmakers said the CIA was conducting clandestine flights in Europe to take terror suspects to countries where they could face torture.

"Today the administration finally recognized that the protections of the Geneva Convention should be applied to prisoners in order to restore our moral authority and best protect American troops," said Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass. "Today's shift in policy follows the sad legacy of five years during which this administration abused our Constitution, violated our laws and most importantly failed to make America safe."

Bush has sought with a series of speeches to sharpen the focus on national security two months before high-stakes congressional elections.

The president successfully emphasized the war on terror in his re-election campaign in 2004 and is trying to make it a winning issue for Republicans again this year.

Bush said the CIA program has involved such suspected terrorists as Khalid Sheik Mohammed, believed to be the No. 3 al-Qaida leader before he was captured in Pakistan in 2003; Ramzi Binalshibh, an alleged would-be Sept. 11 hijacker; Abu Zubaydah, who was believed to be a link between Osama bin Laden and many al-Qaida cells before he was captured in Pakistan in 2002.

The list also includes Riduan Isamuddin, known as Hambali, who was suspected of being the mastermind of a string of deadly bomb attacks in Indonesia until his 2003 arrest in Thailand.

Defending the prison program, the president said the questioning of these detainees has provided critical intelligence information about terrorist activities that has enabled officials to prevent attacks, including with airplanes, within the United States. Other attacks thwarted through intelligence gathered in the program include a planned strike with an explosives-laden water tanker on U.S. Marines at Camp Lemonier in Djibouti, an attack with car and motorcycle bombs on the U.S. consulate in Karachi, and a plot to fly passenger planes into London's Heathrow Airport or Canary Wharf, Bush said.

Bush would not detail interrogation techniques used through the program, saying only that they are tough but do not constitute torture. He did use language that suggested its nature, saying the CIA turned to an "alternative set of procedures" that were successful after Zubaydah and others had stopped providing information.

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Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
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This was reported by Dana Priest back in November of 2005.

quote:
CIA Holds Terror Suspects in Secret Prisons

Debate Is Growing Within Agency About Legality and Morality of Overseas System Set Up After 9/11

By Dana Priest
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, November 2, 2005; Page A01

The CIA has been hiding and interrogating some of its most important al Qaeda captives at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe, according to U.S. and foreign officials familiar with the arrangement.

The secret facility is part of a covert prison system set up by the CIA nearly four years ago that at various times has included sites in eight countries, including Thailand, Afghanistan and several democracies in Eastern Europe, as well as a small center at the Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba, according to current and former intelligence officials and diplomats from three continents.

The hidden global internment network is a central element in the CIA's unconventional war on terrorism. It depends on the cooperation of foreign intelligence services, and on keeping even basic information about the system secret from the public, foreign officials and nearly all members of Congress charged with overseeing the CIA's covert actions.

The existence and locations of the facilities -- referred to as "black sites" in classified White House, CIA, Justice Department and congressional documents -- are known to only a handful of officials in the United States and, usually, only to the president and a few top intelligence officers in each host country.

The CIA and the White House, citing national security concerns and the value of the program, have dissuaded Congress from demanding that the agency answer questions in open testimony about the conditions under which captives are held. Virtually nothing is known about who is kept in the facilities, what interrogation methods are employed with them, or how decisions are made about whether they should be detained or for how long.

While the Defense Department has produced volumes of public reports and testimony about its detention practices and rules after the abuse scandals at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and at Guantanamo Bay, the CIA has not even acknowledged the existence of its black sites. To do so, say officials familiar with the program, could open the U.S. government to legal challenges, particularly in foreign courts, and increase the risk of political condemnation at home and abroad.

But the revelations of widespread prisoner abuse in Afghanistan and Iraq by the U.S. military -- which operates under published rules and transparent oversight of Congress -- have increased concern among lawmakers, foreign governments and human rights groups about the opaque CIA system. Those concerns escalated last month, when Vice President Cheney and CIA Director Porter J. Goss asked Congress to exempt CIA employees from legislation already endorsed by 90 senators that would bar cruel and degrading treatment of any prisoner in U.S. custody.

Although the CIA will not acknowledge details of its system, intelligence officials defend the agency's approach, arguing that the successful defense of the country requires that the agency be empowered to hold and interrogate suspected terrorists for as long as necessary and without restrictions imposed by the U.S. legal system or even by the military tribunals established for prisoners held at Guantanamo Bay.

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--------------------
Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Ritten
A Terrible & Sick leek
Member # 417

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Surprised? No one should be. Disgusted? Depends on your point of view.

What is the best way to get information on pending/possible attacks from people that think they get all Allah has promised them for dying?

Milk and cookies?

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"You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus
"Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers
A leek too, pretty much a negi.....

Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256

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What is the best way to preserve the most fundamental values and principles of a free society?

Destroying them?

Defending this kind of rape of human rights and dignity is a world of Mao and a world of Stalin and a world of secret police, secret trials, and secret DEATHS, and if you think preventing attacks - no matter how horrific - justifies that world, you might as well have flown a fucking plane into a building yourself.

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Ritten
A Terrible & Sick leek
Member # 417

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Welcome aboard my plane, next stop PLO headquarters.

Tell me, what would you recommend? Taking the fucking high raod will only get you so far with this type of fucking menace. You can not reason with it, you can not appease it except through your fucking destruction and following their fucking ways.

So clue me in, what is the best fucking method for dealing with these fucking beasts?

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"You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus
"Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers
A leek too, pretty much a negi.....

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Da_bang80
A few sectors short of an Empire
Member # 528

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Nuke the entire world and restart civilization as a utopian society with us as the supreme leaders?

That's my plan, who wants to help? I figure all it takes is a good hacker to get into the russian database and launch a few nukes.

Oh wait, we're talking about the russians, in that case just about anybody can do it...

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Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
The courage to change the things I cannot accept.
And the wisdom to hide the bodies of all the people I had to kill today because they pissed me off.

Remember when your parents told you it's dangerous to play in traffic?

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Mars Needs Women
Sexy Funmobile
Member # 1505

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Okay, but only if I get my own duchy.
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B.J.
Space Cadet
Member # 858

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Anybody know W.O.P.R.'s web address?
Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ritten
A Terrible & Sick leek
Member # 417

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www.wopr.ca/

--------------------
"You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus
"Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers
A leek too, pretty much a negi.....

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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
Member # 31

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"So clue me in, what is the best fucking method for dealing with these fucking beasts?"

Well, it certainly isn't by becoming them.

Sorry, "...by fucking becoming them".

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Mucus
Senior Member
Member # 24

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I think you misunderstand him. I believe that he's asking for the best method for him to perform sexual intercourse with terrorists. A strange request admittedly...
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Ritten
A Terrible & Sick leek
Member # 417

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Yes, I don't usually swear, for this I do apologize.

To me they are no different than rats chewing at the underbody of world society. So to treat them like rats does not bother me.

It is a no win situation, we can not treat them like trash nor can we try to show them how 'nice' we can be, there is no middle ground. Not with the extremists, of any group, so what do you do?

We are their Great Satan.

Now, where is that tissue to clean up that snotty mess????

--------------------
"You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus
"Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers
A leek too, pretty much a negi.....

Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
Member # 882

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Living up to their propaganda will not make things better for us and will not deter them.

If we adopt their methods, we can add ourselves to the "Axis of evil" and ever other petty oppressive government the world over.

While I understand that the goal is to keep America "safe", the sad truth is, once you start rationalizing torture as doing what's in the State's best intrest, you are giving alibi to all the worst dictators and human rights abusers in the world.
Not a club I want my country to belong to.

What are these "alternative" methods exactly?
I think they're afraid to reveal what they've been doing....hell, I'm afraid to know!

Amnsety International has long taken note of such "alternative" methods of extracting information- fun stuff that leaves no marks for any pesky trials that may come up later.
Stuff like repeatedly sufforcating the prisoner in a plastic bag full of urine or playing a recording of a woman being tortured to death (heard from the next room over) and telling the prisoner it's their mother/wife/daughter etc.
Then there's the not so nice methods- like inserting an electrical lead into a man's penis and shocking him repeatly (this one's reportedly big with the Chinese for interrogating "spys") or depriving prisoner's of protien while making them stay awake for days at a time (a known brainwashing tecnique)...

I'm hoping this admission leads to some sort o oversight on interrogation operations...but I doubt it.

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Ritten
A Terrible & Sick leek
Member # 417

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quote:
Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
... we can add ourselves to the "Axis of evil" and ever other petty oppressive government the world over.

We probably should.

The problem is that no matter what avenue we may try, probably even isolationism, would deter them in any way.

This goes to the other issues I asked where to draw a line on what is acceptable and what is not. I find that the line on this hasn't been crossed, yet, even with people making comparisions with regimes that 'cleansed' their countries. If they started clearing all people of middle eastern ancestory from the streets I would have a problem, but, as of now, I do not.

Let's break this down to a base level. Parents.

A couple of people take your kid(s) and will kill them, you got lucky and caught one. Where would you draw the line on the amount of brutality used to find out where your kid(s) is/are?

--------------------
"You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus
"Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers
A leek too, pretty much a negi.....

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B.J.
Space Cadet
Member # 858

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If my kids are involved, there is no line.
Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
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