posted
Yeah, come on, people. You know that threads around here must address one topic and one topic only.
"If you still feel the need to vote for Obama, you can still consider voting third party or independent for other offices."
Except, it's the same problem. You say you don't want to vote for the lesser of two evils. But, when it's a foregone conclusion that one of those two "evils" is going to win, then not voting for the lesser one just paves the way for the greater one to take over. In all branches and at all levels of government.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
It's not always a foregone conclusion, though. Libertarians and Greens already hold dozens or hundreds of offices across the country. Their recent court victories have granted them ballot access in new states, further increasing their recognition. And under any circumstances, it's only of concern whether the greater evil wins when there's a significant difference between the two. In cases where candidates don't represent their constituency and don't live up to their campaign promises, there's frequently not.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Almost always, though. If you happen to be voting in a race where a minor party candidate is actually capable of winning, then I say go for it. But typically, that's not going to be the case. Or anywhere close to the case.
"And under any circumstances, it's only of concern whether the greater evil wins when there's a significant difference between the two. In cases where candidates don't represent their constituency and don't live up to their campaign promises, there's frequently not."
See, that's why I didn't vote in the 2000 presidential election. Been regretting that one for a while.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by WizArtist II: Islam is still a religion that says: "You are a follower of Islam or you are an infidel" And the result of the latter is not pleasant.
The strict adherents to Islamic doctrine will not be appeased till the entire planet is ran by Islamic governments and those that are Jews and Christians are no longer.
As he's already acknowledged, Wiz is a conservative. It just would have been a nice change to meet one who didn't spout this drivel.
"Infidel" means "non-believer." So, yes, someone who doesn't believe in Allah is a non-believer. The term however dervies from old French and was probably applied first to Saracens during the Crusades - Muslims, in other words.
Now, Islam is actually quite a tolerant religion. It is, as ever, the extremists who get the attention. Christianity also had its extremists, still does, but a lot of that is in our past (The Crusades,against Islamic presence in the Holy Land but also against the Albigensian Heresy and many, many others; the Inquisition; witch-burning; hundreds of years of Colonial missionary activities; and lots more).
Islamic extremism has gained its prominence in reaction to the incursion of foreign mores in the Information Age, as well as resentment of Western interference in their affairs.
So, what this boils down to is, you have two polarised groups of socio-religious conservatives both saying "if you're not with us, you're aganist us," with the rest us a silent majority.
Meanwhile, to get back to the original political point of this thread, it seems to me that the big problem is there's very little to separate the two main parties. What decides who you vote for is the other stuff - in the US, it's the perceived connection between the Republicans and the Religious Right, or that between the Democrats and a Welfare State; in the UK, it's the connection between the Conservatives and the aristocracy, or between Labour and the Unions. Putting all that aside, the policies of either party vary very little.
In the UK we have the same problem as Omega. Labour just aren't doing it for me anymore. But I know that the Conservatives will be even worse. We do at least have a third party with some clout, the Liberal Democrats, but many refuse to see them as a viable option. The usual "they'll never get enough votes overall, so why should I waste my vote on them?" opinion pervades.
posted
We get the same situations here. Liberals, Conservatives, New Democrats. The NDP has yet to get a majority to win the prime minister spot. Hell, we haven't ever even had an NDP premier out this side of the country...
Registered: Mar 1999
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WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
Member # 1425
posted
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Now, Islam is actually quite a tolerant religion. It is, as ever, the extremists who get the attention.
Lee, who typically ends up in power or holds the most sway in the Islamic nations?
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
Registered: Nov 2004
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"...who typically ends up in power or holds the most sway in the Islamic nations?"
Well, that depends upon the country. Yeah, in some place like Iran or (formerly) Afghanistan, it was the religious extremists. But, then again, both of those were our fault.
Surely you're not going to suggest that, say, the king of Jordan, or the dictator of Pakistan, or the king of Saudi Arabia is a religious extremist?
Registered: Mar 1999
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
Or the government of Qatar? I have a friend who lives there. Women can vote and drive and everything, and nobody stabs the numerous white Christians in the streets. (Yes, I'm trying to inject a note of humor here...)
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
And lets not forget that an extremist Islamic government in the UAE would never let something like Dubai exist...
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: I say let's all vote for a write-in: Satan.
Just vote for me. Just remember: W.W.J.D. What Would Jason Do.
That's sure to make society in general much better for everyone.
I'd brainwa....er...reform terrorists with 24/7 Trek indoctrination untill they only jihad on Cardassians.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Regarding tolerance: Most people forget that Islamic doctrine (it could even be in the Qu'ran, though I'm not certain about that) specifies that forced conversions aren't really conversions, and it wasn't a requirement for people following other faiths to convert once they were conquered/annexed by the Arabs. They were merely required to pay an additional tax. (Which, by contemporary standards, is remarkable.)
Naturally, the ideal was rarely adhered to in actual practice. Either in the short term (violent repression of certain groups) or the long term (inevitable religious assimilation). But that's simply human nature; it's been the same in every part of the world.
Or to put it another way: until the 20th century, politics and religion were simply two sides of the same coin. You never had one without the other.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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