Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that gay people "should" go to hell, I think they rather shouldn't. I'm just writing out the facts according to the bible that's all.
I'm not really a religious man, but personally, I'm leaning toward Buddhism, in my opinion, it's more "scientifically sound".
We can not deny all the positive effects of Christianity, but in the end, I don't think that it can escape the term of "benevolent dictator".
------------------ If a diamonds is a woman's best friend, why does a man has to settle for a dog?
No First, I won't write a paper on it, all that needed to be said was said in Scripture. Christianity and Homosexuality is purely an American-Christianity problem (well, Europe too.) Christians in India, Africa, and where ever don't have this discussion amongst themselves or with anyone else.
I'll state my position again. I believe homosexuality is a redeemable sin (like all sins except rejection of the Holy Spirit) and that through the divine work of God a homosexual maybe changed to a heterosexual person. This is just as a person with a lust problem can pray to God and have his/her lust problem taken away. I'm not preaching a new Christian thought, I'm just preaching the redemption of Man.
------------------ If you don't believe in what I say or the God I speak of I guess you'll just have to meet me so the Lord and I can convert you.
[This message has been edited by bryce (edited June 05, 2000).]
quote:BlueElectron: I'm just writing out the facts according to the bible that's all.
Y'know, it might just be me, but I've yet to see any of the 'facts' of which you speak.
Perhaps a little more indepth research is needed for opinions to formed, and argued intelligently.
------------------ "Ultra Magnus is Undeniably Fun!" David Stevens, New York Magazine. "Total Complete excitement from start to finish!" -WPIX-TV, New York "This isn't a thrill ride, it's a rocket..." -Richard Caves, Time Magazine.
If homosexuality isn't a sin, then why not? (Have a religeous affiliation, I mean.)
If homosexuality is a sin, then look at it this way -- Do you need to get cleaned up before you're allowed to take a bath?
If it isn't a sin, then no problem. If it is, then G-d will deal with it -- just as he'll deal with pride, lust, envy, hate, etc. If homosexuality is a sin, it isn't a "special" sin that G-d has any less tolerance for than others. A lot of Christians need to get off of that pedestal they like to climb onto when talking to non-believers.
Of course, the non-believers need to climb off their pedestals, too. The proof of your religeon (or lack of one) is the way you treat others. If atheism (or Zoarastrianism, or Islam, or Hinduism, or Buddism, or Christianity, for that matter) is superior to whatever I profess, then why doesn't it allow you to treat me like a human being deserving of compassion and respect?
~~Baloo
------------------ The Authors of the previous quote have been sacked. We would like to apologize for the low quality of the quote and have you ever been bitten by a m��se?
Although to simply answer the question, I think the reason is that just about all belief systems (atheism included) teach, either dirctly or by implication, that those who follow other paths are deluded, either on purpose or by accident. It's hard to respect the ideas of people you think are delusional.
------------------ "Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
posted
Is Jack Van Impe a good evangelist? He scares me. I wonder who'd win if he got in a fight with that guy from 'Hour of Power'. Hmm...Pseudo-Celebrity deathmatch idea...
------------------ "Ultra Magnus is Undeniably Fun!" David Stevens, New York Magazine. "Total Complete excitement from start to finish!" -WPIX-TV, New York "This isn't a thrill ride, it's a rocket..." -Richard Caves, Time Magazine.
posted
The problem with "evangelizing" one's religion, whether it's Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddism, etc., is this: People tend to approach the problem of informing others of their beliefs like they do any other situation where they feel they need to persuade someone else. In some cases, they don't really believe it themselves, and can only validate their (shaky) choice to believe by convincing others. Hey, If I can convince you, then maybe I'm right after all?
Others just don't understand how someone could possibly disagree with them. They don't seem to understand that you're not clairvoyant, and therefore don't have the same understanding of the subject you do. You've met people like this, haven't you? Even outside the context of evangelism -- they're the people who believe you're disagreeing with them for the simple pleasure of watching them get steamed. Either that, or you've already signed with the opposition and therefore your position must be brutally dissected and debunked, just so any onlookers can be sure that you are wrong, and they are right. These are the folks that treat any form of disagreement with them as a personal insult.
Yes, it's dysfunctional, but hey, a lot of folks go into "helping carreers" (medicine, social work, psychology, etc.) because at some level they want to "fix" everything, including you. Why shouldn't a vocation (or avocation, in the case of non-ordained evangelists) that includes "helping people find G-d" attract some of these "fixers?
Then, of course, there's the folks who don't really believe, but either figure it (religion) is a good, legal way to separate a fool from his money and gain instant respect and credibility (within the group, anyway), or feel that, if religion is a crock, it's a crock that helps others, even if it doesn't help them, so why not help perpetuate it and get some of that "feel good" second-hand, by helping others to feel good?
Getting back to the OP however, stop and remember some of the folks who've been just as obnoxiously "righteous" about such non-religious topics as the length of the Defiant, capitalism v.s. communism, or gun rights v.s. gun control. I do think that the Bible specifically states that homosexuality is wrong, but there are some indications that this injunction against same-sex intimacy, may be directed at ritual sex, and might not even apply to women at all.
I figure that G-d chooses whom to call, and it's an individual's choice whether they will listen. My witness is my life and how I try to live it (those of you who know me, know it isn't always a bed of roses ). If you want to ask me about something related to my religion, go ahead, but remember that I believe "I don't know" is an honest answer, and does not invalidate my beliefs. If you don't ask, I won't try to buttonhole you and MAKE YOU LISTEN YOU NO-GOOD DURTY HEATHEN!
It isn't my job to herd people into the kingdom of heaven. Neither is it my responsibility to bar the way of others seeking entry. I just try to ensure I'm standing in the right line, and not stepping on any toes (unintentionally -- some toes need treading upon ). I believe if you really seek truth, you'll find just as much as you can handle. If that's not what you're looking for, you'll find something else. If you're seeking justification to continue doing things the way you have been, you'll probably find that. If you're looking for ways to control others (or abdicate responsibility for your own decisions by allowing others to control you), then that's what you'll find.
The truth never hurts anyone, but it sure can irk the hell out of some folks.
~~Baloo
------------------ Beer lovers take note: Stroh's spelled backwards is "shorts."
Saiyanman Benjita
...in 2012. This time, why not the worst?
Member # 122
posted
< Christian antagonist mode >I'm not against gays (anymore), nor do I believe that all gays will ultimately go to hell. However, there is scripture in the bible Leviticus 13: 20, I think? Man shall not lay(have sex in the New English Version) with another man as he does with a woman, it is an abomination. That means sin. If you believe the Bible to be true, then you believe homosexuality to be sinful (There's another passage in 1 Corinthians about it as well, but I cannot remember at this time.) But the Bible also says Romans 5:23-For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. This means everyone has sinned at least once in their life (You can lie to yourselves, but God knows it to be true). But God offers a way to salvation through Jesus Christ, the Lord.
However, If you are gay, and continue to be gay, you cannot say you are righteous through Christ (For you are continuing to sin), elsewise you would be labeled as a hypocrite. This goes for those who continually lie, steal, swear, and lust. All sins are equal through the eyes of God (That includes "little white lies"). This does not mean all people go to hell. You can seek salvation (Quote Jesus: Go and sin no more.) This goes for the pre-marital sex line a few posts back (However, the sexual sins are lust, adultery, and rape, the bible does not specify pre-marital sex as a sin {In the passage in Genesis 6, it does not mention anything about a wedding ceremony, just the joining of one man and one woman. Does that mean if you meet your intended, then it's okay?}, more of a cultural sin.) < /Christian antagonist mode >
Let me repeat my first line, I'm not anti-Gay (anymore). I used to be when the only gay I knew was this annoying ugly prick who wouldn't stop talking about his sex life. It's really annoying when the only time he talks, it sounds like a bad porn description. He also said openly that he was a Christian. In this case, I don't think his lifestyle fit the Christian mold, and gave Gays and Christians a bad name. Since then, almost all the gays I know are regular people. So I'm not anymore.
------------------ Well I'm a Bada$$ cowboy living in a cowboy day wicky-wicky-wak yo yo bang bang me and Artemus Clydefrog go save Selma Hayek from the big metal spider Wicky-wicky-wak wicky-wicky-wicky-wak Bada$$ cowboy from the West Si-yiide
[This message has been edited by Saiyanman Benjita (edited June 08, 2000).]
Marriage is ordained by God. When you consummate a marriage that is the most important part. The ceremony was developed later and I believe there should be a ceremony because Jesus never said anything against it. I would say Adam and Eve were not married, because there was no one else there to do it.
This is the theological reason why pre-marital sex is wrong; we almost never have it with our final mate. By the time most of us are married we are "married" to a few other people as well. It has been scientifically proven that women chemically bond in their minds to the men they have sex with.
With what Baloo was saying: It takes a very experienced person to do this sort of thing. I wouldn't say I'm qualified, and I don't think most clergy are. You can't be trained for converting a certain type of person, just people in general, and then hands on experience and a lot of faith works the best.
Something another person said:: It is a position in the conservative side of the Church that homosexuals MUST repent of their lifestyle to be saved. On the conservative side, there is not acceptance of Gay/Lesbian/Bi Christians.
Bye for now.
------------------ If you don't believe in what I say or the God I speak of I guess you'll just have to meet me so the Lord and I can convert you.
posted
First, you have brought that up (Lev.) before and I have answered it before. For those of you who haven't heard the answer hear it goes again.
OT law is seen by most Chrisians as the law for the Hewbrews, which Christians are not. We only look at these laws for advice and how to handle situations, we rarely do what it really says. Christians mostly read the OT Prophets and the Psalms, Proverbs, ect. Find a Christian and ask them the last time they read Lev., Num., or Duet.; mostly it will have been a while.
Everything in the Bible like the example First brought up in his post is looked at by responsible theologians using the information we have on the culture and the history of the times and places. (For example, most churches today will let women teach men the Bible, Paul said to never allow it.)
No Christian would stone a homosexual, and if they scream on TV they did it for Christ, Satan has them bad!
------------------ If you don't believe in what I say or the God I speak of I guess you'll just have to meet me so the Lord and I can convert you.
). If you want to ask me about something related to my religion, go ahead, but remember that I believe "I don't know" is an honest answer, and does not invalidate my beliefs. If you don't ask, I won't try to buttonhole you and MAKE YOU LISTEN YOU NO-GOOD DURTY HEATHEN! 
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